Ufirst Money Merge Account: Resistance is futile
One of the most common forms of “training” offered to members of multi-level marketing companies (also known as direct sales, pyramid schemes, dual marketing, networking marketing, etc) is Overcoming Objections. Why is that such a key? Because all of the ones that I’ve seen have overpriced, underperforming products, and consumers are usually pretty quick to see that.
So distributors, agents, representatives, or whatever they’re called must be skilling in overcoming every single objection you could have. In Mary Kay, consultants are trained: “No does not mean no. It means that she needs more information.” Clearly, the only answer that is accepted is “yes.”
United First Financial trains its “agents” in the fine art of overcoming objections, and today I’m going to share with you a couple of them.
The software costs too much. $3,500 is a lot of money.
(Those who say this are exactly right. Consumers could do for free what this software does, even though they want you to believe it’s magic math that helps you pay off your mortgage. It’s not magic math. It’s simply payment of your mortgage above and beyond your regular monthly payment.)
The script:
First of all, people are realizing tens, and even hundreds of thousands of dollars in savings by utilizing the MMA program. Even if they are able to save as little as $35,000, that is a 1000% return on their initial investment in the form of interest savings. If your customer were to save $350,000, that is a 10,000% return on investment, in the form of interest savings. Realizing that type of savings over a twelve year term is an 833% annual return, again in the form of interest savings. To top it off, the program is guaranteed as long as your customer’s monthly income and expenses stay within the guidelines of the initial Money Merge Analysis.
In our experience, the average client realizes over $3,500 in future interest savings by using the MMA program in a matter of 3-5 months. This means that your customer will most likely realize an interest savings that was greater than the $3500 original investment.
It is very important to point out that the $3500 is not paid out of the client’s checking account, but is usually paid directly from the HELOC. In other words, the bank is lending them the money for the MMA program. This payment should not result in any change to your customer’s current lifestyle in any way. This is not unlike rolling the cost of refinancing a mortgage into the loan with the exception that with the MMA, we are not incurring additional long term debt, but showing your customer how to become debt free in one third to one half the time.
This is probably a good time that I can save you $20,000 in interest without you paying me a cent. Even more can be saved (for free!) by simply paying extra money toward your mortgage each month. These figures in the script sound impressive, but they’re simply window dressing. This program does nothing that a consumer can’t do without it.
I can do this myself.
(Of course you can. I’ve been telling readers this all along. The program doesn’t save you money. Simple prepayment of your mortgage does. You don’t need to waste $3,500 to pay off your mortgage early.)
The script:
You might if you were programmed and conditioned to calculate the exact amount of money to be transferred to your primary mortgage each and every month. The MMA program is set up so that the maximum amount of funds are sent to principal, while the least amount is paid in interest. The MMA is a finely tuned system that is maximizing the power of your money. There is much more involved than just taking your discretionary income and applying it to your first mortgage each month. Using the MMA Program will accelerate the payoff much faster than a monthly transfer to principal. Please do not underestimate the power of the program.
Also included in the system is a real time “Financial Dashboard” that continually gives you feedback every time you make an entry into the software. This allows you to make better decisions when it comes to capital expenditures and planning for a better future.
In a nutshell, the MMA program helps your customer develop better spending habits. For example, ask them if they are where they want to be financially. If not, why? It is most likely because they are not conditioned or programmed to send extra money to their mortgage company. They need the MMA. The majority of clients who have been on the MMA program for over two years are still on the program, and in most cases are ahead of their projected schedule. The MMA program does in fact help people change the way they look at becoming debt free in a positive and rewarding way.
The MMA not only offers our customers an interest cancellation program, but generally offers them a reserve of funds that can be accessed in case of an emergency.
Of course the powers that be must tell you that there’s fancy math involved here. You wouldn’t pay $3,500 if you didn’t think it was fancy. So the United First Financial people direct you to do a money shuffle each month that saves you a few dollars… .literally. The real savings is from the prepayment, not this “optimal timing” nonsense.
But don’t take my word for it. Professor Jack Guttentag (very smart man) has determined that you’ll save a couple of hundred dollars a year with the money shuffle. The real savings comes from…. drum roll…. the simple prepayment of the mortgage. In Australia, lawmakers have determined that these debt reduction programs are essentially sold based on a bunch of lies.
Related Posts
- Misleading consumers in the marketing of United First Financial Money Merge Account
- United First Financial scam: You’re using the bank’s money to pay down your mortgage
- Joe Taxpayer’s five part Money Merge Analysis
- United First Financial: Don’t believe the hype
- The UFF Money Merge Account money shuffle explained
I have heard things about Crown Financial, although I have no direct experience with them. I would give the software a 30 day try. I think that’s enough to get a basic feel for it. Then I’d personally sign up for one quarter to give it a little better test before signing up for one of the longer term plans.
And before the UFF cult members jump on me… Yes, I know there’s a cost to this program and I know she could do it on her own (which is my biggest argument AGAINST UFF.)
I’d rather see her try this though, than UFF because it’s not a huge upfront cost that will never be recovered AND the cost is reasonable AND she’s not tied into it for longer than she wants to be AND the program doesn’t get her in more debt AND the program doesn’t rely on some nonsensical money shuffle that wastes time and doesn’t save any money. It just makes far more sense.
WWW, don’t hold your breath. The agents don’t know how it works, and every time we run a challenge and beat the MMA report by sending the same money directly to the high interest debts first and then the mortgage, instead of filtering it through the pointless HELOC, they’re shocked. Then they retreat behind, “Then why isn’t everybody doing this?” or my favorite, “Shut up it works!”
To show you why agents don’t know how it works, I can email you instructions for accessing UFF training materials. UFF training materials are great. They include videos, Powerpoint presentations and documents related to marketing the MMA. If you look carefully, you can even find graphs and slides where they gloss over the math. Never is the MMA actualy compared to what a homeowner could do on their own with the same money the MMA uses. They don’t even explain amortization. When a UFF agent meets a homeowner, which of them is more versed in mortgages is a tossup. As the agent has probably already bought, my bet is on the homeowner.
If you want to take a look at the training site, send a request email to itscraighansen at gmail dot com.
Given the current real estate market, how many homeowners still have sufficient equity or LTV left in their properties to even get an HELOC today? I assume that a HELOC is necessarily required for this purported program to work.
For those of you who still have good LTVs, be sure to negotiate the margin on your HELOC since it may not be a disclosure item.
W^3 – the truth is out there.
Look at debtfreeproject’s example
which offers a year’s MMA in action. Total year end debt = $185,486.95.
Then see my page which offers month by month transactions and shows a year end balance of $185,208.41, $278.54 less. The agent does *not* account for the fee. That’s ok by me. His own example (from UFF) is all we need to see that prepaying beats the MMA program. For all its ’sophisticated algorithms’, it doesn’t create any savings at all.
You want more ?
UFF offers the full examples, paying the mortgage in 10.4 years (125 months) This one includes the fee.
The simple spreadsheet or calculator shows a payoff after 122 months.
What’s missed in the MMA examples is how you need to reference the software for every transaction you make each day, every single purchase is what they suggest. The spreadsheet/calculator approach simply has you pay your extra month end money to the mortgage, saving you the hours per month of effort. Time you can spend as you wish…..
Joe
WWW – UFF was ready for the HELOC problem. You can now use their product with a credit card account. Lord help us all. That’s all we need… more financial illiterates making more use of risky credit cards.
JoeTaxPayer:
Where is your page?
To avoid spammers’ links, this blog doesn’t seem to permit outbound links aside from the ones linked to our names. Please click on my name above, it will take you to a list of links, I refer to Travis Mitchell’s site as well as my own spreadsheet response.
Joe
Not true Joe. You should be able to leave a link. If it’s not working w/ html code, then just put the link by itself and see what happens.
JoeTaxPayer:
Found your page as well as the link to debtfreeproject. On debtfreeproject, the author is claiming that the mathematics behind the software is subject to intellectual property (“IP”) protection and therefore it’s a secret.
This may seem like a load of bunk; however, a 1998 patent case, State Bank & Trust Company v. Signature Financial Group, Inc., 149 F.3d 1368 appears to support the patentability of business methods including the mathematical formulas provided they are of some practical application and not just an abstract idea. For you math nuts like me, this has got to be a very interesting read.
Notwithstanding the IP claim by the author seems a little flawed since a filed patent claim would generally reveal the process that one is trying to protect. If they want to protect the “mathematical algorithms” from inquiring minds like me then they should not publish it by filing a patent because at some point it will be available for viewing. Am I missing something here my IP attorney friends?
If they reveal the math and it is objectively verified then I will support the promotion of their software provided they reduce the rediculas price!
What say ye?
W^3 -
What I say is that in one example MA lags by a couple hundred bucks in just 12 months not taking the fee into account, in the other example, over the full 10.4 years it still take 3 extra months to pay off as compared to simple prepaying. Given the hundreds of hours of attention one must pay to the MMA software over that time, 120+ months, a couple hours a month, it’s really just a waste of one’s time. Even free, the simple prepay methods we advocate are a better result.
Joe
How can you people judge a program without even giving the program a trial…. it seems here that there is a lot of people with broken hearts
Al – The same way that I know cancer and murder are bad. I’ve never had cancer, but I can say definitively that it’s a bad thing. I’ve never been murdered or committed murder, but I’m pretty sure that’s a bad thing too. I don’t have to pay $3,500 to UFF to know that their program is not worth $3,500. I’ve done the research and I have the facts.
Al:
The promoters of the program claim that the “secret sauce” of the software is in the underlying mathematics. Fortunately, as a science, mathematics is objectively verifiable. Thus, the promoters are either right or wrong – there’s no in between.
My point is that the math can be verified without buying the software. So just release the math. What’s the problem?
LOL – Because as of this moment all agents have plausible deniability. They can pretend they don’t know that DIY works better, is easier, and is cheaper.
This MMA program is nothing but another way for predatory monsters to separate good people from their money. (Good = Gullible some days…) I realize that most people have difficulty adding extra money to their mortgage each month. After all, we are constantly bombarded with the concept the we “deserve” a big expensive lifestyle. Just look at the “Housewives” franchise on BravoTV. It’s a bragfest on wealth and outrageousness.
Bruce, you are the classic example of the perfect victim. You won’t do the simple task of making a higher payment each month yourself, so you rely on someone else to tell you to do it AND you’ve paid them to tell you to do it. They aren’t actually taking control of your finances and putting you on a small monthly allowance and making all of your payments for you, right? You should be ashamed that you won’t do this yourself.
Predatory Con Men are only one part of the equation. The other half is occupied by people who refuse to take control of their own lives and finances. Buy a Suze Orman book for $24.95 and it’ll tell you how to do the same thing that you’ve paid $3,500.00 to know. You can’t get your money back. It’s a legitimate service… FOR LAZY PEOPLE!
Stand up and educate yourselves people! You can only be manipulated if you’re open to it. Guard your finances like you guard your life!
ShhShhTheIdiots…
You have presented a hard pill for many to swallow, especially after they’ve been fleeced out of the 35 Franklins. I like the part about the “predatory con men” because that is what most MLM recruiters are. These money management cons just make the irresponsible even more so.
How many ways there is to describe the utter stupidity of this program, no one really knows? Joetaxpayer has thrown down the gauntlet for sure, and now you pile on with your observations. I’ll bet there are some people out there doing some heavy rationalization on how they could have used the 35 g’s for something truly important? Maybe a class action suit might help stop the madness?
I am glad I read all of this. I am pretty good at math, but have continued to stuggle with the financial discipline and not spending “left over” money. I was recently presented with the MMA system which we can’t afford. We don’t have a mortgage, we just have a lot of debt. Can any of you suggest a software program that is similar to the MMA system that will show us the best way for us?
I have read Dave Ramsey, Suze Orman, consulted mortgage advisors, and even a financial planner. All have conflicting opinions. If you have extra money, should you pay more towards debt with higher interest, highest cashflow output, or smallest balance? All three have their benefits and will save you money, but for the undisciplined, it’s not a simple answer. Overall you will save money with paying the highest interest, however, that may take a while before you feel the effects of what you are doing. Paying the one with the highest cashflow output will free up more of your monthly budget, and make life easier. Paying the smallest balance will make you feel better, kind of like setting small goals.
I haven’t seen the MMA software for our situation, but it seems to have the answer. Is there another software that is cheaper that can also show us the answer, but will also take in to account the “human” aspect?
I have the perfect system for you: Paper and pencil.
The way that will save you the most money is by paying extra toward the debt with the highest interest rate. Yes, the others have other ways that they teach because they feel they are easier or help motivate the consumer more. I’m all about paying as little as possible, so this way is the best.
Every month, pay the minimum on all cards. Use the rest of the cash you have earmarked for debt (which is hopefully just about everything you have left after paying the required bills) and pay it toward the debt with the highest interest rate. Use the paper and pencil to list all your debts and rates for yourself so it’s easy to see.
Next month, do the exact same thing. No software purchase is necessary.
If you want to use a software package to help budget, I’d suggest Quicken. They’re now even offering their online version completely FREE.
Call each CC lender. Tell them you have a transfer offer for zero interest for a year with another bank, and that you’d rather stick with them if they’ll lower your rate to something more reasonable. This can’t hurt and will only cost you the dime for the call. Odds are, it will work. As Tracy said, pencil and paper, there’s no magic involved. Balance * interest rate = monthly interest accrued. $1000 paid toward the 18% card saves you $15/mo, vs throwing it at a lower rate card that may have a lower balance, that approach is just stupid, in my humble opinion.
Joe
Subject: what I would put on the website
For twenty years I’ve been originating Government loans and have always told people to pay extra on their home mortgage. Doing this would save them thousands of dollars in interest. “Just making one extra payment per year will take 7 to 8 years off the term of your loan”. After twenty years and thousands of customers, I’ve never met ONE customer that ever did this on a consistent basis. What stops them from doing such an easy task? Before I answer this question let me tell you about myself. I’ve owned a mortgage company for 16 years. I’ve dealt with first time homeowners and people in their late 80’s looking for additional income through a Reverse mortgage. I hear peoples’ life stories every day. The last two years have been the worst years in the mortgage industry since the 18% interest in the 1980’s. I am proud to say, my company DOES NOT HAVE ONE LOAN IN FORECLOSURE!!! NOT ONE HOME OWNER HAS BEEN LATE ON THEIR MORTGAGE! Now let me tell you why people never pay extra on their home loan. My friends, LIFE HAPPENS, the kids need this, my spouse wants that, vacation, new flat screen TV, LIFE IN GENERAL. If I pay extra, that money has just come right out of my pocket!
That having been said, I would like to ask you a question: What is your equity doing for you? What is your equity doing?!! Your equity is sitting there waiting for you to sell your home so you can put it into your next house, or you’re using it to pay off consumer debt. I put my equity to WORK, by using the MMA program. Did you know that 99% of homeowners’ know that they can pay extra toward their mortgage? Did you know only 1% of homeowners will ever do this? Maybe you can pay extra on your mortgage sometimes. That’s great! Congratulations! But most people need help and that’s what the MMA Program offers homeowners. It’s an easy way to use your equity to payoff an amortized loan.
On January 1st of a New Year most people will say ” I’d like to lose a few pounds”, so they join the YMCA and start working out. This may last a week or so then they stop. Others may hire a personal trainer and stay with a workout routine to reach their goal. MMA program is a personal trainer to help you payoff your largest debt, which is your mortgage! The program tells you the exact amount to pay and when to pay it. You actually skip years off your loan. Can you do this on your own? YES!!! But will you? In 24 months under the MMA program I’ve moved up 106 house payments on my amortization schedule. That’s a saving of $295,210.00 in house payments I will never have to pay. Could I have done this on my own? Maybe. Would I? Statistics say, no. The bottom line is the program pays for itself in the payments I no longer have to make.
Paying off your mortgage should be one of your top priorities. Paying off your home loan will change your life. It will change your retirement. For me, in six years with MMA I will do just that! With the MMA program I know what date I will accomplish this task. When I made my 11/01/2008 house payment I knew that payment was being applied as my 09/01/2017 payment on my amortization schedule. I moved up 9 years on my amortization schedule.
I don’t know why you feel so negative about the MMA program. What I do know is that its right for me. This program just helps people to become mortgage free much faster. Take this challenge for six months and try to do this on your own. Be honest with yourself. See if life get’s in your way.
With the MMA program it’s never been easier to payoff your mortgage…… You have nothing to lose but the interest you pay on your mortgage.
Brad
Categorize Brad’s comment under “Lies Told By UFF Agents.”
Brad decries paying down a mortgage to get equity, and then suggests that homeowners do just that with the Money Merge program. He says that UFF helps consumers “Put that equity to work for them.”
No it doesn’t. It does nothing different than simple prepayment of the mortgage without paying $3,500 for access to the software.
He claims that someone UFF is the key to homeowners actually making prepayments on mortgages, when they could have done that all alone for free. There is no magic to UFF and it doesn’t “put your equity to work for you.” It does the exact same thing as simple prepayment, but at a higher cost and with a lot of time wasted.
Brad – you regurgitated the same odd analogies your peers offer.
The gym example is precisely why the motivational side of MMA is bunk. The discipline required to add a bit of principal to each month’s mortgage payment is a fraction of the effort required by the constant attention (one agent suggests you text message MMA from the supermarket to determine if it’s the right time to buy steak) the program requires.
We are so negative because of the combination of exaggerated (all are easily documented) claims, and fact that use of MMA lags the results of simple prepayments. I’ve turned more negative as I become aware of banks freezing HELOCs and the one chance for MMA to recover a bit of its own cost goes away. I’m sure more stories will surface about the economic lives destroyed by the cancelled HELOCs and the results of MMA customers needing to borrow money at 28% on credit cards for those “life happens” moments such as a failed transmission or unexpected need for kid’s braces. How do you propose that clients pay for these things once they’ve directed all their savings to their mortgage and thanked MMA for directing them to do so, once their HELOCs are frozen? This question is not rhetorical – please answer, and be specific.
Joe (who is now inspired for another post in my ongoing series)
Brad,
I paid extra towards my mortgage. Every month. I set it up an automatic extra payment with my bank. My mortgage acceleration was truly on “autopilot”. All I had to do was monitor my bank balance to make sure I wasn’t overextending myself. If I was, I could ask the bank not to make the extra payment that month.
It was ridiculously easy. Now I’m mortgage-free, and I didn’t have to send $3500 to anyone to buy inefficient, time-wasting software.
So now you know someone who paid extra on a consistent basis. I’m sure I’m not the only one you know, either. All the ones who shake their heads after hearing your sales pitch, for example.
Tracy,
This is just one persons opinion. Someone recently said i’ll just pay an extra $250 a month and do the same thing as the software program would do. So he ran an analysis and saw that he would pay the mortgage only off in 19+ years. When he had the analysis ran he saw he could pontentionaly pay off the house and the car and the credit cards in 9+ yrs. So you are correct you can do this yourself. I tell everyone i speak to that they can come close with doing it themselves. If they miss by 3 or 4 years and need to make the extra payments that is a choice they need to make.
Dennis – Simple prepayment beats UFF every single time. I know for a fact that the UFF analysis did NOT just use $250 a month prepayment if it came up with a shorter repayment period than the do it yourself. Another agent and customer fooled by UFF.
Dennis,
As always, you’re welcome to actually prove what you are saying. Give us the MMA report. We’ll use the same debts, income and expenses, and with one brutally simple subtraction calc each month, we’ll beat the MMA. Every single time.
Don’t believe me? Post the analysis and let’s compare.
This particular service scam succeeds because people are persuaded to join before they’ve had sufficient time to discover the truth. By the time a person learns the facts, the damage has already been done. This explains why there have been so many people who have left insane comments which support their bad decision to buy into this service scheme–even when the details of their deception have been so sufficiently examined, revealed and described.
All MLM schemes seek to ‘invert reality’ in a similar fashion. They want to make their particular ‘financial holocaust’ on distributors seem like the greatest ‘financial opportunity’. They seek to make silk purses out of sows ears in the minds of what P.T. Barnum described as the ‘fools born every day’. People wise enough to not fall prey to the Nigerian check scam many times fall victim to what they perceive as legitimate, but which in the end turn out to be just as perniciously stupid.
Ufirst Money Merge has been utterly debunked. Folks still pushing this scheme, knowing the truth, ultimately are criminally seeking to defraud consumers through deception. Seems to me that there are people known as Attorney Generals who need to step in and examine this situation.
Dennis -
The difference is what you show, 9yrs vs 19yrs, is simple. Agents rarely, if ever, wish to compare apples to apples.
I asked an agent to show me how the “HELOC shuffle” would work using the classic numbers ($5K/mo net, $200K, 6% mort) but with no extra $1000.
The first reply assumed $2500 every two weeks, which produces $5000 extra each year, she also added $100 “that I’d find somewhere”.
I’ll cut to the chase – it took a number of emails just to get her to input the correct numbers, and then the savings evaporated.
Your example assumes monthly card payments, which can run as high as 5% of balance. So $500 paid each month toward a $10,000 CC balance magically morphs into the ability to leverage that $500 by taking a $10,000 HELOC loan, paying off the cards, and now having $500/mo to put towards the system. If you wish to have the level headed, calm, numbers based conversation many of us seek, please run the numbers without assuming any credit card debt. Of course, if you feel that the simple advice that one should refinance 24% CC debt to a lower, perhaps 4-6% HELOC rate, is worth $3500, then you have a great target market.
As Craig requests, post the numbers, and we can talk.
I’ve been using the MMA software for just a little while now. So far, my savings are just under $35K, or $31,5 if you want to subtract the software costs. I’m sorry, Tracy, that you think I’ve done a horrible thing by saving $31,5 to-date. Was it expensive software? Of course. For me, it was an investment. I don’t hear any of you claiming that it doesn’t work. I only hear you people complaining that it can be done yourself without spending $3,500 up front. Well, that’s great, if you know how to do yourself and you’re willing to do so.
I dropped almost a grand getting some water damanage fixed on my house. I could’ve done it myself, of course, for probably half the price. I would just need to learn how to do it, and get around to do doing it. But I’ll be honest with myself and claim that it wouldn’t have gotten done.
I’m pretty financially illiterate as well and I don’t have the motivation to figure it out and do it myself. Call me an idiot, I could care less. I’m an idiot that’s saved a ton of money so far using a method that fits the type of person I am.
I think the problem here is that those of you who think of this software as the devil… those of you understand how it works, are willing to do it yourself, and therefore have no need for it… well you’re not part of the target audience for this software. It doesn’t mean everyone is like you.
My wife just dropped $45 on workout software. At first I thought it was a bit silly, being as though I could’ve shown her how to manage her fitness lifestyle and get maximum results for free (fitness is more my forte, not finances). But then I started to realize that it wasn’t a bad idea at all. She’s not a know-it-all, like me, when it comes to fitness. And I’m not like all of you when it comes to finances. She now has workout routine and a level of excitment that matches my own. She needed the software to get those results. I didn’t. I’m certainly not going to be claiming the program was a scam, waste of money, and a truly horrible thing because it wasn’t for me!
There’s really nothing that has been said so far by anyone here or anything that can be said that has made my decision of saving $31,5 after a few months anything but a great thing for me. I’ll admit that MMA doesn’t really save you money. No software or program can do that by itself. It simply “helps” you. If you need/want the help, then it’s an option. If you don’t need the help, then you don’t need MMA it’s that simple.
But UFF is still a business out to make a profit, just like other bussiness out there that you trust. They’re not going to know who will benefit from it and who wouldn’t. Therefore, they must go on the assumption that everyone will. Then it’s up to you to determine if it’s something worth looking into.
Robert – You’ve fallen for the MMA sales pitch hook, line, and sinker. There’s really nothing to “figure out” to do mortgage reduction on your own. Have extra cash each month? Send it to your mortgage (or if you have another debt with a higher interest rate and you’re trying to reduce all your debt, send the extra cash to that).
I suspect you’ve not read much here, because if you had, you’d understand that this MMA isn’t the same thing as hiring a professional to fix damage to your house. In that case, you’re hiring someone with more knowledge and capabilities than you, and it makes sense. In the case of MMA, you’re doing something akin to hiring a 5 year old to fix your house. The MMA is inefficient and inexpensive.
It is not “an investment.” If you have truly reduced your debt by $31,500 since starting with MMA… then you should know that you’d have reduced it by more than $35,000 if you had done a simple prepayment plan without the software.
What you’ve done is flushed $3,500 down the toilet on a product that puts you further behind on paying down your debts than if you’d have followed our simple advice, which takes less than 1 minute per month to follow. You need no special knowledge or skills to do our “do it yourself” method. All you need is an ability to write a check, and the ability to figure out if 10 is more than 6. If you are able to know which of those numbers is bigger, you also know where to write that extra check to each month. One minute. Bigger savings. Less time.
No, you’re the one who doesn’t understand. If I wouldn’t have signed up, I wouldn’t have done what you say I should have. ’cause I don’t freakin know what to do. How much extra should I pay? Hells if I know. If I drop another 2 grand on my mortgage, what will that do for me? Hells if I know. Sure, you would know… you could figure out. Me? I don’t really care. Would I have saved more if I hadn’t used MMA. You would have. I wouldn’t have, ’cause I wouldn’t have done a thing other than continue to pay the regular payments. That’s what you can’t get through your head. I don’t care about the math involved. I don’t care how easy it is to do myself. I don’t care that I spent 3500… ’cause I’ve saved 31500 in a few months! Do you even understand what that means? I SAVED 31500!!!! And you think I’m an idiot. Good think I didn’t come to you for financial advice
So, if falling for the sale pitch meant spending 3500 and saving 31500, then I’m sure glad I fell for the sales pich!!! ’cause you wouldn’t see me out doing that on my own.
In fact, if I had listened to someone like you, when it was all said and done, I would have ended up spending $500K on my $350K loft.
“I’ve been using the MMA software for just a little while now. So far, my savings are just under $35K or $31,5 if you want to subtract the software costs.”
Let’s stay away from the analogies, and stick to numbers. At 6%, money doubles in 12 yrs, 4X in 24 years, and about 5X in 30 years. So I am going to guess that you threw about $6K-$7K into the program to ’save’ the $30K at the end. If you put the $3500 in as well, you’d have ’saved’ $45K. MMA does not cost $3500, it costs $15K-$20K.
I use ’saved’ not to be cute, but because this is simple time value of money. What MMA agents excel at is the take the very first transaction, which is typically to take nearly all of one’s emergency funds/savings, and throw it at the mortgage (stopping in the HELOC to add a bit of smoke) claiming a ’savings’ of 4-5X that number. Well, it was your money, and as Tracy has been suggesting, you could have done this on your own, not spent $3500 to have a piece of software tell you this.
You keep saying stuff like “you could have done this on your own”. But, I wouldnt’ have. Let me repeat, I wouldn’t have. Is that clear now? So please answer this, if someone would NOT have done this on their own, would MMA be worth it?
Ok, I understand. Really, I do. You are so insecure, so innumerate, that you are convinced that you are unable to add or multiply.
I, on the other hand, know that if you take all your extra money at the end of each month and send it to principle, that each year, as a late Christmas present, the bank will send you a progress report, your current balance. MMA does a great job showing you exactly where you are, the day it predicts your mortgage will end. With MMA, you will end 3-6 months later than you would on your own, but in your case, the simplest of mortgage calculators or spreadsheets seems beyond your interest. That’s ok, I’ve seen people valet park for $12 when the regular lot was 20 feet away, and the valet wouldn’t do anything different. In your case, you spent $3500, maybe $15,000 with interest because you feel the math is beyond you. I am big on “teach a man to fish” as a reasonable rate, than to sell him overpriced fish for 10 years. Ooops I broke my own analogy rule, sorry. I find no one is as dumb as they think. (read that as a complement, not an insult).
Joe
Okay. That clears it up. Robert is paying what Dave Ramsey calls a STUPID TAX. He admits he is too dumb to follow one simple piece of advice that will take him 1 minute a month to follow, and which he needs very little IQ to follow. He would rather lose that quick $15,000 to $20,000 that Joe calculated because he’d rather be stupid and waste a lot of time goofing around with the MMA software in the process.
But you still didn’t really answer my question. If I’m not willing to do it on my own, would I be better off with MMA or just continuing to pay the regular monthly payments?
You don’t really have to answer that question, ’cause I know it’s a silly question and I know what your answer would be yes.
So, to put it into perspective, the majority of homeowners do the same thing. Pay the monthly minimum payment. With that being said, the majority of homeowners would benefit from MMA. Would MMA be the very best solution for the majority of homeowners? or even a single home owner? From what you all have discussed, I’m convinced that the answer is no. However, I’m don’t really care about the very best solution. All I’m really talking about is the fact that the MMA program will most likely save a person more money in the end compared to just paying the minimum monthly payments. And you have to realize that that’s what the majoriy of homeowners do. Not neccessarily because they don’t know any better (although that’s probably true for many), and not because they don’t all know how to do it on their own. We could give 100s of reasons ranging from laziness to redardation. But it doesn’t matter because it’s just the way it is. Period. I don’t really know how to put it any other way without getting another response including “well if you do it on your own, blah, blah”.
So, if it does the same thing that others do on their own, and therefore it saves money, amounts beyond the purchase price, then it does a good thing. I don’t care if doesn’t save as much as if you [Insert any other method here], if it saves you money, it saves you money. So I can’t understand how it can be labeled as fraudulent, or a scam.
And let’s be honest, who are the people flocking to this software? People like yourself who undestand how to do it your own and/or are willing to do so? My best guess is no. So that leaves us with everyone else who doesn’t understand or.. maybe they understand but are not responsible enough on their own, or maybe, just maybe MMA has a few really cool features that they love. Whatever. They save money in the end, that’s why they purchased it.
Robert – Your question is so stupid, that I can’t answer it. You’re saying you have two options… One that is free and takes one minute a month, and the other that costs you tens of thousands of dollars and a few hours a month. And you want to know if you should do the other??? OF COURSE NOT. You are choosing to waste thousands of dollars because you can’t bring yourself to spend one minute a month not wasting thousands of dollars? IDIOTIC.
And no one is “flocking” to the software.
Tracy, you’re exactly right. I don’t want to spend the one minute a month. And yes, I’d rather lose the 15-20K in order to end up wiht a much larget net gain…. rather than paying an extra 200K on my mortgage in the long run. Yup, pretty stupid, I admit it!
Of couse you can’t answer the question, because your personality won’t let you admit that I’ve saved money using MMA that I woudn’t have saved had I continued to pay my monthly minimum. No matter how true it is, or how obvious it is, you probably could never agree to that, could you? You’re the type of person that, when cornered like this, you just start throwing out insults. I applaud you, Tracy.
Well there you have it. UFF customers are happy to part with $20k thanks to this expensive, inefficient, cumbersome software. This man is proud of wasting $20k.
Oh, an that 3500 that I spent on it… you know what that would’ve went to intead? I was planning on purchaseing a 52″ sony bravia 120mhz TV. But I didn’t. Instead I used it on this software. So I wouldn’t have put it to my mortgage anyway. Instead I spent it on something that gave me the drive and motivation save me quite a bit of money. So by not listening to someone like you, I won… big time
Funny how you keep talking about how much is spent, yet you won’t dare talk about how much is saved. wonder why.
Robert – You see that you are saying your only two choices are wasting $20k and several hours a month, or just paying the minimum on all bills. Yet there’s the third option, which is to spend one minute a month (which is far less than you’re spending on the UFF software) to save $20k or more than you will with UFF. You refuse to consider that third option is viable, even though it is the most reasonable, rational, and economical.
The only way to sell UFF/MMA to anyone is to completely defy all logic and common sense. Or to lie, which UFF agents are good at.
Robert – We get it. You want to waste $20k. The only way you could possibly even consider paying extra money toward your mortgage is by throwing away $3,500 today and $20,0000 in the long run.
The choice is simple. You could save $0 or $50,000 or $70,000. To you, the clear choice is $50,000. There is no other way. In my world, $70,000 is more than $50,000 and there is no excuse for not spending less to save more. One minute a month to save $70,000, or several hours a month to save only $50,000. Simple choice. I’ll save the $70,000.
Thanks for your participation. Enjoy your software. (Unless the company goes under and you can’t access the software anymore.)
no, no. You’ve misunderstood me. Not sure why, ’cause I feel like I’ve repeated this numrous of times. I don’t refuse to consider the 3rd option at all. I’m simply here to tell you, that yes, I’m irresponsible, and not likely to choose the 3rd option. Not because I don’t understand it’s the best, rather, I’m just irresponsible. Or in your words, an idiot. Whichever. However, so is the majority of the rest of the country.
The problem is, you refuse to consider that option 2, (MMA), would also save me money. Not as much as option 3, but certainly more than option 1 (minumum payments). And since I, and most everyone else are irresponsible idiots for option 3, you refuse to admit that option 2 is much better.
Ok, now I feel like you understand what I’m getting at. Yes, I’m ok with saving just 50K, instead of 70K. Don’t get me wrong, I’d definatly prefer that extra 70K in my pocket. But I also know myself very well, and therefore am fine with $50K instead of $0.
As long as you can say that I would be making a NET GAIN, then that’s all I wanted to hear.
A scam is not a scam, if it helps you net extra money… whether it’s $2 or $50K
“Oh, and that 3500 that I spent on it… you know what that would’ve went to instead? I was planning on purchasing a 52? sony bravia 120mhz TV.”
Funny, that’s the TV I got a couple months back, the W series, $2000 at the time (down to $1800 now).
With 10 or so years to go on my mortgage, I can be a miser, and look at every simple pleasure as another month, week, day, on my mortgage, or I can say thank you to my older self for buying me the big TV. One’s entire life should not be based on mortgage elimination. It’s a worthy goal, but not to the exclusion of every thing else.
Robert – There are plenty of scams that help people “net money.” So whether one nets money or not doesn’t determine if it’s a scam. I think something is a scam if its results are misrepresented or if the representatives lie about it. This is one such lie:
http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/
You know, I just have a fundamental problem with a line of reasoning that goes like this: “I’ll pay the minimum on all my debts unless I can flush $3,500 down the toilet for the opportunity to waste tons of time to pay more than the minimum on my debts.”
Option #1 – Pay only the regular mortgage payments
Net Savings: $0
Time spent per month: 0 minutes (baseline)
Option #2 – Buy the MMA
Net Savings: $50,000
Time spent per month: 30 minutes?
Option #1 – Extra payments
Net Savings: $70,000
Time spent per month: 1 minute
File this one under “No Brainer”.