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	<title>Comments on: United First Financial scam: You&#8217;re using the bank&#8217;s money to pay down your mortgage</title>
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	<link>http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/</link>
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		<title>By: JoeTaxpayer</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-184562</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeTaxpayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/?p=1796#comment-184562</guid>
		<description>Ellick - Why not talk some numbers with us? 
$200K Mort, 6% int, 30yr. HELOC available at the same 6%. No other debts to consider, and just $200/mo after all expenses are done. The client has income of $2500 twice per mo net. 
Want to tell us what your system can do with this? 

To be blunt about it, the analogies, hyperbole and ad hominem attacks are all getting boring. From Tracy&#039;s blog here, and agent sites, I keep reading how one must enter their transactions, every penny spent every day, into the software. One agent considers it a &#039;good&#039; thing that you can &quot;text the software from your cell phone to see if today is the optimum day to buy the steak that&#039;s on sale at the grocery store.&quot; Yet, right now, I handle my money every other week, and when I choose to make an extra prepayment on my mortgage, it&#039;s about a 15 second transaction. The endorsers you cite are either award sponsors, or trade journals, so what? And your clean the house analogy fails at so many levels I don&#039;t know where to start. But let me spell it out for you, the people who clean our house get about 1/3 of my wife&#039;s or my hourly wage. So we spend 1 hr of wage to save 3 hours of our time. You suggest that one spend about a full month&#039;s wage to then waste a few hours of time per month and come up short on their mortgage. Last I went head to head with the MMA program, it came up months short even if it were free. The $3500 just put it further behind. 

Take the challenge above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ellick &#8211; Why not talk some numbers with us?<br />
$200K Mort, 6% int, 30yr. HELOC available at the same 6%. No other debts to consider, and just $200/mo after all expenses are done. The client has income of $2500 twice per mo net.<br />
Want to tell us what your system can do with this? </p>
<p>To be blunt about it, the analogies, hyperbole and ad hominem attacks are all getting boring. From Tracy&#8217;s blog here, and agent sites, I keep reading how one must enter their transactions, every penny spent every day, into the software. One agent considers it a &#8216;good&#8217; thing that you can &#8220;text the software from your cell phone to see if today is the optimum day to buy the steak that&#8217;s on sale at the grocery store.&#8221; Yet, right now, I handle my money every other week, and when I choose to make an extra prepayment on my mortgage, it&#8217;s about a 15 second transaction. The endorsers you cite are either award sponsors, or trade journals, so what? And your clean the house analogy fails at so many levels I don&#8217;t know where to start. But let me spell it out for you, the people who clean our house get about 1/3 of my wife&#8217;s or my hourly wage. So we spend 1 hr of wage to save 3 hours of our time. You suggest that one spend about a full month&#8217;s wage to then waste a few hours of time per month and come up short on their mortgage. Last I went head to head with the MMA program, it came up months short even if it were free. The $3500 just put it further behind. </p>
<p>Take the challenge above.</p>
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		<title>By: The Swindler's Mind</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-184560</link>
		<dc:creator>The Swindler's Mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 22:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/?p=1796#comment-184560</guid>
		<description>Ellick: &quot;We never said it was magic, the problem that you guys have is transferrance of knowledge. Could you teach a person to do it and when something does not add up right will you be there for that person? And just how much of your time do you want to spend trying to figure out what the software is doing instantly.&quot;

Here&#039;s the complicated algorithm to reduce debt at the most rapid rate, Ellick.

1. Cut expenses as much as possible.
2. Do you have any money left at the end of month/week/whatever?
   If yes, pay the leftover money against highest cost debt.
   If no, cut expenses further and/or increase income. 
3. Rinse and repeat.

(please send me $3,500)

Mel said: &quot;Anyone who slams this phenomenal software cannot think “outside the box”&quot;.

Mel, the math is very much inside the conventional box of any spreadsheet app or financial calculator. The box you are outside of is the &quot;ethical box&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ellick: &#8220;We never said it was magic, the problem that you guys have is transferrance of knowledge. Could you teach a person to do it and when something does not add up right will you be there for that person? And just how much of your time do you want to spend trying to figure out what the software is doing instantly.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the complicated algorithm to reduce debt at the most rapid rate, Ellick.</p>
<p>1. Cut expenses as much as possible.<br />
2. Do you have any money left at the end of month/week/whatever?<br />
   If yes, pay the leftover money against highest cost debt.<br />
   If no, cut expenses further and/or increase income.<br />
3. Rinse and repeat.</p>
<p>(please send me $3,500)</p>
<p>Mel said: &#8220;Anyone who slams this phenomenal software cannot think “outside the box”&#8221;.</p>
<p>Mel, the math is very much inside the conventional box of any spreadsheet app or financial calculator. The box you are outside of is the &#8220;ethical box&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy Coenen</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-184557</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy Coenen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/?p=1796#comment-184557</guid>
		<description>Thank you for that bit of eloquent wording.

E&amp;Y didn&#039;t endorse UFF. 

UFF is not convenient. It wastes tons of time. And the company isn&#039;t therefore anyone, except if it&#039;s to collect that check. Otherwise your debts are your problem.... just use the software and shut up. Paying down your debt is simple, and this software doesn&#039;t create discipline in anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for that bit of eloquent wording.</p>
<p>E&#038;Y didn&#8217;t endorse UFF. </p>
<p>UFF is not convenient. It wastes tons of time. And the company isn&#8217;t therefore anyone, except if it&#8217;s to collect that check. Otherwise your debts are your problem&#8230;. just use the software and shut up. Paying down your debt is simple, and this software doesn&#8217;t create discipline in anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Ellick Cosby</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-184556</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellick Cosby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/?p=1796#comment-184556</guid>
		<description>Are yuou sure that what you say is fact? We never said it was magic, the problem that you guys have is transferrance of knowledge. Could you teach a person to do it and when something does not add up right will you be there for that person? And just how much of your time do you want to spend trying to figure out what the software is doing instantly. I don&#039;t know about you but convenience is cool. The other thing if everyone was so smart why are they not currently doing it. Our software gives a person instant discipline. How about this one,most people will spend $3000 to $10000 in closing fees to get in debt, and not only to get in debt but over time most will pay the lender twice the original amountof the property in the first place. Here is a thought people can clean their own houses, but there are some people who pay people for to do it for them.  The question is not of price but of benefit. For a lot of people it&#039;s not about the money it&#039;s about their time, which they would like more of, and certainty of knowing when they will be out of debt. A system that is and has been proven, ernst and young, personal real estate invester mag. and many others have endorsed our product who endorses yours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are yuou sure that what you say is fact? We never said it was magic, the problem that you guys have is transferrance of knowledge. Could you teach a person to do it and when something does not add up right will you be there for that person? And just how much of your time do you want to spend trying to figure out what the software is doing instantly. I don&#8217;t know about you but convenience is cool. The other thing if everyone was so smart why are they not currently doing it. Our software gives a person instant discipline. How about this one,most people will spend $3000 to $10000 in closing fees to get in debt, and not only to get in debt but over time most will pay the lender twice the original amountof the property in the first place. Here is a thought people can clean their own houses, but there are some people who pay people for to do it for them.  The question is not of price but of benefit. For a lot of people it&#8217;s not about the money it&#8217;s about their time, which they would like more of, and certainty of knowing when they will be out of debt. A system that is and has been proven, ernst and young, personal real estate invester mag. and many others have endorsed our product who endorses yours.</p>
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		<title>By: Utah CPA</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-184554</link>
		<dc:creator>Utah CPA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/?p=1796#comment-184554</guid>
		<description>Excellent post Tracy.  These UFF guys are slick snake-oil salesmen, conning the naive into believing that if you borrow at a higher HELOC rate in order to pay down a conventional mortgage (most often at a lower rate), YOU WILL SAVE MONEY?!??!?  How!  Why, it&#039;s MAGIC!

And here in Utah, when you throw a little faith-healing into the mix, why - you&#039;ve got yourself another MLM to sell!  Now, add some teary-eyed testimonials (as some of your respondents have done)well, you&#039;re on your way to millions.  If you try to use analysis and logic - watch out, they&#039;ll turn on you (see posts above).  What do the creeps at UFF do?  Do they actually do any factual analysis?  Heavens no!  They just trudge out more weeping testimonials - the most common ploy in snake-oil MLMs.

Tracy - keep fighting the good fight!  UFFers are nothing but scammers, trying to separate fools from their money.  

Folks, keep the $3,500 and pay down your debt - you&#039;ll be much better in the long run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post Tracy.  These UFF guys are slick snake-oil salesmen, conning the naive into believing that if you borrow at a higher HELOC rate in order to pay down a conventional mortgage (most often at a lower rate), YOU WILL SAVE MONEY?!??!?  How!  Why, it&#8217;s MAGIC!</p>
<p>And here in Utah, when you throw a little faith-healing into the mix, why &#8211; you&#8217;ve got yourself another MLM to sell!  Now, add some teary-eyed testimonials (as some of your respondents have done)well, you&#8217;re on your way to millions.  If you try to use analysis and logic &#8211; watch out, they&#8217;ll turn on you (see posts above).  What do the creeps at UFF do?  Do they actually do any factual analysis?  Heavens no!  They just trudge out more weeping testimonials &#8211; the most common ploy in snake-oil MLMs.</p>
<p>Tracy &#8211; keep fighting the good fight!  UFFers are nothing but scammers, trying to separate fools from their money.  </p>
<p>Folks, keep the $3,500 and pay down your debt &#8211; you&#8217;ll be much better in the long run.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee D</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-184553</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/?p=1796#comment-184553</guid>
		<description>&quot;One person making stuff up is a liar. A bunch of people making stuff up are creating a new paradigm&quot; - Red &amp; Blue

Idiots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;One person making stuff up is a liar. A bunch of people making stuff up are creating a new paradigm&#8221; &#8211; Red &amp; Blue</p>
<p>Idiots.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy Coenen</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-184552</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy Coenen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/?p=1796#comment-184552</guid>
		<description>I will admit that the concept of flushing $3,500 down the toilet on inefficient and worthless software that causes me to pay off my debts slower than without it.... that is definitely a foreign concept to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will admit that the concept of flushing $3,500 down the toilet on inefficient and worthless software that causes me to pay off my debts slower than without it&#8230;. that is definitely a foreign concept to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Mel Dervus</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-184550</link>
		<dc:creator>Mel Dervus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 06:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/?p=1796#comment-184550</guid>
		<description>The concept behind the money merge account is a paradigm shift. 

Anyone who slams this phenomenal software cannot think &quot;outside the box&quot;. The fact that this software has been proven effective many times over by people who use it in the way it is intended to be used is not enough for people who live inside the reality that others have defined for them.

Look up &quot;paradigm shift&quot; and you will understand how small your world is, and only because you do not care to think beyond what you have learned from other &quot;educated&quot; individuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The concept behind the money merge account is a paradigm shift. </p>
<p>Anyone who slams this phenomenal software cannot think &#8220;outside the box&#8221;. The fact that this software has been proven effective many times over by people who use it in the way it is intended to be used is not enough for people who live inside the reality that others have defined for them.</p>
<p>Look up &#8220;paradigm shift&#8221; and you will understand how small your world is, and only because you do not care to think beyond what you have learned from other &#8220;educated&#8221; individuals.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig Hansen</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-183885</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 02:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/?p=1796#comment-183885</guid>
		<description>Billy,

Here&#039;s a thought...could spending $3500 on a piece of software with far inferior budgeting tools than a $80 copy of Quicken or MS Money be part of the &quot;discipline&quot; problem?

You needed help sticking to a budget, but you didn&#039;t buy budgeting software.  You bought a broken mortgage accelerator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Billy,</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a thought&#8230;could spending $3500 on a piece of software with far inferior budgeting tools than a $80 copy of Quicken or MS Money be part of the &#8220;discipline&#8221; problem?</p>
<p>You needed help sticking to a budget, but you didn&#8217;t buy budgeting software.  You bought a broken mortgage accelerator.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy E.</title>
		<link>http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2008/08/27/united-first-financial-scam-youre-using-the-banks-money-to-pay-down-your-mortgage/comment-page-2/#comment-183871</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 05:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/?p=1796#comment-183871</guid>
		<description>After reading most of this argument, I have to say your both right. (Tracy &amp; Thomas morphing into Eugene). The problem here is discipline. The United First gig is a tool to help people keep disciplined enough to pay off their debts with their &quot;extra cash&quot;. I refinanced my house in the mid 90s and planned on paying it off in less than ten years. Something called &quot;life&quot; happened in the meantime and it&#039;s still not paid off. A few months ago my massuse turned me on to UFF. It&#039;s not working for me because my outgo is greater than my income. If I can discipline myself better I know it will work and it helps me keep an eye on my terrible spending habits. The HELOC has a lesser interest rate than the credit cards I paid off, and I recently got notices from them that their interest rates are going up, so I&#039;m ahead there I suppose, but the UFF is helping me see where my money is going so it will help me stop spending recklessly and be more, I&#039;ll say it again, &quot;disciplined&quot;. (Discipline is not an end in itself, only a means to an end. Robert Fripp &amp; King Crimson)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading most of this argument, I have to say your both right. (Tracy &amp; Thomas morphing into Eugene). The problem here is discipline. The United First gig is a tool to help people keep disciplined enough to pay off their debts with their &#8220;extra cash&#8221;. I refinanced my house in the mid 90s and planned on paying it off in less than ten years. Something called &#8220;life&#8221; happened in the meantime and it&#8217;s still not paid off. A few months ago my massuse turned me on to UFF. It&#8217;s not working for me because my outgo is greater than my income. If I can discipline myself better I know it will work and it helps me keep an eye on my terrible spending habits. The HELOC has a lesser interest rate than the credit cards I paid off, and I recently got notices from them that their interest rates are going up, so I&#8217;m ahead there I suppose, but the UFF is helping me see where my money is going so it will help me stop spending recklessly and be more, I&#8217;ll say it again, &#8220;disciplined&#8221;. (Discipline is not an end in itself, only a means to an end. Robert Fripp &amp; King Crimson)</p>
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