98 thoughts on “United First Financial Scam: You’re Using the Bank’s Money to Pay Down Your Mortgage

  1. Or better yet, just pay the $3,500 directly toward your existing mortgage. It will put you in a lot better position than flushing it down the UFF Toilet. How do these Companies get away with this stuff?

  2. Pingback: Carnival of Net Worth #8

  3. http://www.zogleinc.com/jpdnsi

    On that page I host two PDF’s and an ASPX file. The are amortization schedules for a standard, well managed, and uFirst MMA analysis.

    I figured a few visuals might help you get your point across.

    Note: there is a difference in amortization schedules between the “Current Amortization” listed in the MMA analysis and the standard amortization bankrate.com provides. I don’t know why. Possibly I entered some information incorrectly.

    The fastest easiest way to pay off debt REMAINS prepayments (extra income applied directly to the principle). Period.

  4. It actually simple! The MMA account uses simple interest (HELOC) to cancel out compound interest (mortgage). Simple interest at a higher rate will beat compounded interest at a lower rated any day of the week. Thats simple math. I use this product and can claim that it does work, and works wonderfully!!! I have been using the program since Aug 2008 and have canceled over 36 months of payments (a little over $24,000 in interest) off my mortgage. Cost: $3500 for software and $85 in simple interest paid on The HELOC. Best investment I have ever made, will be completely debt free in 6.25 yrs saving over 130,000 in interest, without changing my lifestyle. The naysayers can claim whatever they want. Thats ok!!! Keep being slaves to the banks. I’ll be debt free!!. Who cares what it cost. It cost what it cost. Its up to the individual to decide if they want to pay it. The cost doesn’t make it a scam. Is a personal trainer a scam? This is also something u could do own your own!

  5. Tom – Look at it this way: 8% interest on $1,000 for one month is more than 6% interest on $1,000 for one month. During that month, it doesn’t matter if you call it simple or compound. It’s one month of interest, period.

    In the case of the MMA, the HELOC is “simple interest” because you pay it each month as it accumulates, so it doesn’t compound. But that doesn’t put you ahead. You’re paying more in interest that month by incurring 8% interest for the month than 6% interest for the month.

    All you’re doing the money shuffle between the mortgage and the HELOC is replacing debt with debt. It’s nonsense.

  6. IF it so bad, howcome i don’t see any UFF client coming out stating that it’s bad, its’ a scamm, they didn’t save anything…blah blah blah….

    and to Tracy, i wanna see the result of the PPL that do it your way versus the ppl that do it the UFF way, and see which is better….

    so far, i’ve only seen UFF client, coming forth saying it’s good….
    and i haven’t heard anything from the ppl that u’ve help coming forward…
    saying ur way is better???

  7. I’ve used my plan and it is FABULOUS! As for why others aren’t commenting about the Do-It-Yourself plan? Well I suspect that they’re not searching the internet for information about UFF, so this site isn’t even on their radar screen. It doesn’t mean that people aren’t doing it successfully.

  8. To Tracy, well if it is Fabulous then show us ur step by step Do it urself plan VS the UFF plan???….so that we can see the difference…

    and most ppl don’t have the kind of mindset that u have to go and research about some Product….becuz everyone don’t think alike….and don’t share the same knowledge….sooo do u keep track of how many ppl u have help to become financially free, free of charge….and if u do not have the time to do that…then just let UFF handle it…at least the client is happy with the product…

  9. UFF – Spend $3,500. Send all extra cash to mortgage.

    DIY – Spend $0. Send all extra cash to mortgage. Immediate savings = $3,500.

  10. UFF isn’t making people financially free. It is burdening them with an extra $3,500 cost (plus interest, because most are financing that) that they don’t need to incur. UFF is also eating up a lot of people’s time with a money shuffle that is unnecessary and ineffective.

  11. To Tracy, i want to see a real sample of a Client that do it ur way, vs the Client that do it UFF way….

  12. I gave you the real sample. It’s just that easy. Real client my way pays all extra cash to mortgage. UFF client wastes $3,500 first, and then pays all extra cash to mortgage. There’s nothing more to it. I’m as real as it gets.

  13. Amorpheus, maybe if you didn’t type like a 14 year old girl with all your net abreviations, readers might take your argument a little more seriously.

    “omg, wtf, y r u saying that? lol”

  14. ok then show me an Amortization Schedule vs the UFF Amortization Schedule, i wanna see the numbers…and see who pays off faster…

  15. What numbers would you like me to put into the amortization schedule?

    Suppose you have a $200,000 mortgage today. The amount of money you have available to pay that mortgage each month is the same whether you’re on do-it-yourself or on UFF, right? (No, the UFF MMA doesn’t create money, nor does it let you pay down your mortgage using the bank’s money. If you’ve been told that, you’ve been lied to.)

    So which will take you longer to pay off: $200,000 on DIY, or $203,500 with UFF? The answer is clear. It takes longer and costs more to pay off your mortgage by purchasing UFF.

    No amortization schedule is really needed for this.

  16. This is not just about your mortgage. UFF takes all your debt. Home, cars, consumer loans, credit cards, etc and finds the fastest way to zero. Tracey IF you can do all that, then congrats. I’ll stay with what I know works and its UFF. It’s funny no users of UFF are coming forward to say the system doesn’t work. Just people who have never used the system or say they have something better. I did my due diligence before I purchased my program. I could not find one unhappy coustomer. You still don’t really understand how the program works. You really need to find someone to show you the system. If the only reason you say its a scam is how much it cost, then you need to re-examine what a scam is. UFF does exactly what it says it does with no hidden cost. They tell you it cost $3500, and the customer makes the decision to purchase or not. Thats not a scam!!!!!

  17. Tracey,
    After looking at what you wrote about simple and compound interest you have no idea of what your talking about.

  18. Right, Thomas. You’ve taken the bogus “canceling compound interest with simple interest” explanation as gospel, even though I’d bet you have no idea what that means.

    I’ll break it down for you: Suppose you owe $10,000 on a HELOC at 6%. If you pay the interest for this month, you’ve paid $50 simple interest. If you don’t pay that interest, it will compound, and the next month you will owe interest on $10,050. It’s only simple interest so long as you pay the interest owed each month. If it accumulates, it compounds.

    Now what about your home mortgage? It works exactly the same way. 6% interest on $10,000 on a regular mortgage also costs you $50 the first month. If you pay that interest charge, it’s simple interest. If you don’t pay it, it will compound, and the next month you’ll owe interest on $10,050.

    This simple interest vs compound interest is simply another fancy-sounding smokescreen used to conceal the fact that the UFF MMA doesn’t really get you ahead.

    As for your example with multiple debts, it’s easy, and can be done without UFF. Pay all minimum payments. Use extra cash each month to pay extra on the account with the highest interest rate. There is no magic to this. It is extremely simple math.

    UFF wants you to believe that a fancy money shuffle saves you money on your debts. It doesn’t. You’re saving money simply based on the fact that you’re paying extra cash toward your debts above and beyond your minimum monthly payments. No money shuffle needed, and no $3,500 expense for a complicated (but virtually worthless) system.

  19. “UFF takes all your debt. Home, cars, consumer loans, credit cards, etc and finds the fastest way to zero. Tracey IF you can do all that, then congrats.”

    Thomas – is it not obvious to you that Tracy’s rule “pay the highest interest rate debt first” (after paying all minimums, of course) is the fastest way to zero? Of course, if one is drowning in debt as you imply, what are the chances they have $1000 extra cash each month to match the classic MMA example?
    I know why no users are unhappy – they are mostly part of the MLM sales plan of UFF, and they don’t want to shoot themselves in the foot.
    Joe

  20. To Abe, sorrie if u didn’t like the typing, i’m just use to typing it this way….i can sooo type it your way too, if you want…

  21. Its like I said before. It works!!! It does exactly what they said it will do. They told me it cost $3500. ITS NOT A SCAM!!! I’ll be debt free in just under 6yrs when it would have taken me 30yrs and saving me $130000. I get my extra cash from my HELOC (which is my money anyway). I want to know how many of you have actually had someone sit down and show you how the program works? I bet none. I have no personal stake in you liking UFF or not. I just hate seeing people give someone or something a bad rap because they don’t really understand it or have a conflict of interest. If you don’t agree with how much something cost, that doesn’t mean its a scam. It just means you wont buy it. UFF is up front about how it works, what it will do, and how much it cost. Get over it!!!!!

  22. If it didn’t work I would be the first person back here telling everyone it doesn’t work!!!! I don’t like anyone being taken advantage of.

  23. Thomas – I have seen the program. I know exactly how it works. I have no conflict of interest. I simply don’t want consumers wasting $3,500 on a product that does NOTHING for them. Buying this program is no different than flushing $3,500 down the toilet. It gets you a tool that does next to nothing at too high a price. Now if you still decide you want to waste your money, good for you. But that’s not going to stop me from educating other consumers who actually want to understand the VERY SIMPLE MATH behind this whole thing.

  24. I don’t believe you have seen the program. How can you tell me it does nothing for the customer, when I am a customer and it is saving me 24yrs off my mortgage and $130000. If I or any other customer choses to spend $3500 dollars for a calculator that helps us stay focused on what we need to do to be debt free, then thats what we chose. If you have a better system, put it on the market for cheaper or free. But quit bashing a company that has chosen to sell a product for a particular price. It’s like comparing a Toyota to a Bently. Product cost what it cost. The customer has the choice to purchase or not. If UFF was misrepresenting itself Id be here beside you telling people to not purchase the product, but you cant say that it doesn’t work. You can only say you dont like how much it cost. I can tell you for sure that it does. I use it!!!!!!

  25. You’re calling me a liar? I’ve seen the program, and that’s that.

    You could save MORE than $130,000 without the UFF software. That is the bottom line here. It is a $3,500 expense that is completely unnecessary, and can be replaced with an EXTREMELY SIMPLE do-it-yourself process that will save you time and money.

  26. What is a lie is that you continue to say the product does nothing for the customer! That is a lie! I believe you should acknowledge that UFF has a useful product that does work. If you continue to call it a scam then thats a lie also! The only thing you can say is you don’t agree with the price, and that your personal opinion. If you have a better product that is so easy put it out there and quit defaming a company that is helping people because you don’t like what their product cost. If you think it should be free create a free product for people and put UFF out of business. Quit talking and start putting action to your claims.

  27. Thomas – Tracy doesn’t have a better product to sell, nor do I. I’d suggest you get another dollar out of your pocket and buy a clue. I produced a spreadsheet I pass out for free, and it compared well to the classic MMA example, $200K/6% loan, beating MMA by the number of moths it takes to pay off the extra $3500. In practice, however, the spreadsheet only tells you your target payoff date, in the same way MMA directs you to pay all your discretionary income to your loans.
    You confuse cause and effect, my friend. You claim MMA does what it says. OK, I’ll concede that. Using no MMA does exactly the same but for $3500 less. Yes, I spent the hour on the stupid webinar, which was pure fluff, and they took no questions. Add it to the hours I’ll ask for back when I’m on my deathbed. At least ‘Waterworld’ had popcorn.
    Joe

  28. Thomas – It’s clear that you don’t want to admit that you’ve wasted $3,500. You could get BETTER savings without the program, so it really DOESN’T do what it says. It says it will save you money. It actually causes you to lose $3,500 plus the interest on that if you finance it (which most do).

    UFF reps are using lies to sell this product. And that’s the scam right there. They use phrases just like the title of this thread…. and that phrase is a lie.

  29. Once again you you have proven my point. I spent $3500 to save over $130000 in 6.25yrs. Good investment!!!! Quit bashing a company and bring something better to market and put them out of business otherwise find something better to do with your time. Better yet go find some people who arent satisfied with UFF. I dont think you will find any. Its just you and taxpayer who cant buy a clue!!! I’m done here!!! UFF IS A GOOD COMPANY AND THE MMA PROGRAM DOES WORK AS PROMISED!! THIS IS A CUSTOMER TALKING NOT AN AGENT!!!!GOD BLESS AMERICA AND GOODNIGHT ALL!!!

  30. Thomas – calm down, my friend. How do you think MMA saved you anything? They directed you to take all your discretionary funds and use it to prepay your mortgage, right? You only used *your* money to pay *your* mortgage. When you borrow from the HELOC you pay the bank you use their money likely at a higher rate than the mortgage. The savings using that shuffle are less than the cost of the program which is why you come out behind by using MMA at all. Those who simply send their month end checking balance to their mortgage (maybe with a HELOC available if they add wrong one month or have an unexpected bill) come out ahead. By $3500 plus some interest.
    All the talk of 3 million calculations and precise timing is nonsense. The MMA cost over the 10 year period is nearly $400/year. Even if I left $2000 sitting at 0% all year, I’ve only lost $120. And saved myself the effort of all the account juggling. Problem is, people like Tracy and I will always be willing to offer numbers and ask for proof in return. MMA advocates will offer ranting and hyperbole but no facts.
    You realize that just because the users are too ignorant (or embarassed) to come forward means nothing. If and when UFF is shut down for good we’ll know how many people fell for this useless scheme.
    Joe

  31. To Tracey, and JoeTaxPayer,

    since you 2 are pro at detecting scams,
    can you two check to see if this new site is a scam also
    note: i’ve already google it, and it didn’t show up on the scam list
    so thats why i came to ask you 2..

    this is the site, ty and would appreciate your help…
    http://www.z2rsystem.com/

  32. well, since u specialize in that field, i want u to take a look at it b4 i take anymore further step into it…for my own safety…
    Since your the experct at dectecting fraud things,
    thats why i came to you…

  33. Armorpheus – I have only been commenting on one scam, MMA. The link you posted leads to a site that offers little detail about what one needs to do to make the money promised, but is clear that you need to pull people in to the scheme, each and every week. Sounds like MLM, a pyramid scheme, and something I’d not bother with.
    Joe

  34. Amorpheus, my advice to you would be to get your GED, and once you no longer write like a seven year-old, you might be able to get a job or trade that pays well enough that you don’t need to consider get-rich-quick schemes as a way to get ahead.

  35. it’s easy typing everything correct, i’m just use to using these abbreviations thats all, so don’t judge me too quickly there,
    you don’t know me that well…

  36. We know that you already signed up to this scam that you want Tracy to “look into”. We know that because you apparently included your affiliate link.

    Because it is an obvious scam to anyone with two brain cells to rub together, either you are a dunce, or you are a scammer, looking to post your affiliate link in as many places as possible, trolling for a quick buck. The smart money is on the latter.

  37. Craig, who said i was asking you, i was asking Tracey here, since she’s the pro at this, now Tracey, can you please see if it’s good or bad…

  38. Amorpheus – I would not recommend that anyone get involved with the company for which you posted your affiliate link.

  39. Ty, but how would you go about to find more proof that it’s not good,
    i can’t find any negative stuff about it so thats why i came to ask you,
    since your the expert on these stuff, and the more proof there is, the better it is for people to not get caught in it, i mean, it doesn’t cost any money to join, but i want to find out the badside of it,
    cuz i haven’t found any complaints yet….and don’t want others to fall for it’s scam.

  40. Tracy,

    I have been a customer of the MMA for almost 2 years and read through your info and blog. The company did not make outrageous claims but the claims they made have been true (not sure about all of the agents or what they say). Obviously you are not a customer so you are not talking from experiecing the product but rather in theory.

    I am very versed in finances as many people who I kicked around the “math” with. My accountant, who is a friend, and some other business professionals. They made comments such as “brillian” … “I wish I had wrote the program”. I concur. Using a credit card at 21% interest to cancel a 6% mortgage would even be a great idea … IF … here it is … you could offset the interest with your cash. The idea is called interest float. It is money borrowed (from someone else) for FREE! That is truth and people do it in America all the time. The MMA concept is similar. Yes it does propel “leverage” your discretionary income but I run my own amortization schedule and have already saved over $50,000 of interest off my first mortgage in just 2 years! I have paid aprox. $700 on my HELOC. The HELOC was the tool but the trade was a BIG WIN FOR ME! I traded $700 open-ended interest (interest I could off set through the month) for $50,000 of interest that I will not pay on my mortgage. If I quit using the program today … Something I certainly would not do … I would have my home paid off in just about 14 more years. I started with a 29.5 year mortgage when I bought the MMA system. That’s half in just 2 years. If I keep using MMA I should finish in just 6 more years. (This includes my first mortgage and my HELOC). Is it possible in theory to do this on your own. In theory, yes, even the company says that on their webpage. In practice, could I have pulled this off … not in a million years and I am a very frugal and very disciplined with my money. Is it worth the $3500 investment to have this system for the rest of my life (it’s a one time purchase … which by the way 1 time purchases are not MLM in style … they are based on re-occuring purchases) I say totally. As a customer of the product and not a discusser from the outside, I would highly recommend the product to anyone who is looking at it.

    I checked all the webpages when I was looking at it as well. I noticed that people who used the word “scam” were not customers but outsiders. They argued on blogs with people who were actually customers. Somehow I believe that experience speaks louder than theory.

    Thank you.

  41. By the way, if this blog still get read, Thomas the customer has it right all the way. Once again you argue your theory against his experiece which has been great. I know several customers of this product in my hometown that also are having great results and seeing theirselves become debt free faster than they ever imagined.

    The service is a great investment because it helps you do what you would not do on your own. Why do people pay for a GPS in thier car. Don’t they know how to get directions by themselves?? Why “waste” the money. I don’t own a GPS system in my car but I’ve seen them work and people say that they save “time and energy” … hmmm. That is exactly what my MMA software does for me. It shows me the route to “0” in a way that I can follow the track, stay on target and get the job done. And I am getting the job done and done well. Could I have done this on my own with this kind of efficiency? No way! It’s a great tool and it’s a lifetime tool and Yes by a long shot it is worth the $3500. Customers I know of the product will tell you the same.

  42. Eugene – You offer the same faulty “facts” that UFF preaches over and over. You’re saying you saved $50,000 in the future by paying $700 now. That’s not a valid comparison.

    What you should be comparing is the amount of interest you’ve saved on your first mortgage during the SAME TIME PERIOD in which you spent the $700. I’m willing to bet you saved less. Meaning the UFF MMA actually cost you money (above and beyond the $3,500 price tag).

    I don’t need to personally experience something to know if it’s bad or good. That’s especially true of UFF MMA. I can use simple math that any fourth grader can do to determine that UFF costs consumers lots of money, and offers them no savings above what one simple addition problem per month (about 5 seconds of your time) will accomplish.

  43. All I can say here is I am an actual customer of this product. This is the REAL DEAL. The program’s $3,500 fee for the software is paid off PAINLESSLY in less than 3 months using this program. After this the software showed that we could pay a huge chunk towards our 1st mortgage to the tune of $5k. In addition we also used the program to “borrow ourselves” the capital for a $3,300 purchase. ALL WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR. Currently we predict we will be well on our way to making another large deposit towards our 1st mortgage around May or June.(this is in the first year of use) >>>>>>>The question is this<<<<<<………how quickly would you pay off $11,800? ($11,800 = $3,500 fee, $5k applied towards 1st mortgage on the plan, $3,300 purchase)??????? It works, take the blinders off.

  44. Kevin – You didn’t borrow yourself any money. You paid off a lower interest rate first mortgage with money from a higher interest rate HELOC. That means you’re costing yourself money each month.

    If you had $3,500 available, instead of spending it on MMA, you could have put it toward your mortgage and saved about $20k long term. Then you could have done the fourth grade math once a month to determine how much extra money you have to send to your mortgage company. In the end, you’d have your debt paid off much faster than with MMA. The numbers don’t lie.

  45. Eugene, Kevin,
    I recently was shown an MMA video which offered a kind glimpse of the product in action. It shows the ‘classic example’ $200K 6%, $5000 net income, etc.
    The funny thing is this – the initial HELOC withdrawal is so high compared to the users’ incomes that the HELOC interest (at 9%) far exceeds the money saved by paying off a 6% mortgage. (I know HELOC rates are now lower than that, but it’s your video, not mine.)
    Once I saw the image of the dashboard, it took minutes to see the net *loss* caused in the first month alone by the software. Seems my compass is a better GPS than MMA is. In another post on Tracy’s blog I show that there’s value to be gained by using the HELOC a bit, but that savings doesn’t even pay off the MMA cost, and the savings I acknowledge are in theory, it seems that in practice, MMA manages to throw even that small sum away, in favor of tripping a larger sum to appear in the “interest canceled” field of the dashboard.
    Lastly, Eugene – Nearly all MMA agents resort to quoting some type of professional who is a user, as you did, but usually it’s even more specific, a mathematician, or doctor, perhaps. This is a logical fallacy called “argumentum ad verecundiam” or appeal to authority. It’s a way of adding legitimacy to a product or cause which is undeserving. But in the case of MMA, it’s a last resort.
    — When you view Madoff’s list of victims, it provides an interesting glimpse of this process in action, his alleged authority outstripping any logic regarding his claimed returns.
    Fortunately for UFF, the SEC and states attorneys general are too busy catching the larger fish.

  46. I’ve just started looking into this product/service and I’ve been told that it works, because the program has you make mortgage payments on the exact date that saves you the most in interest charges. I’m not sure how this works yet, but I won’t be signing up for something that doesn’t logically show me how its going to save me money. When talking to the rep I said this very thing to him. He talked for about a half hour and never answered my question, so I’m not sure about the MMA. I want to believe it works, but the proof better be in the pudding.

  47. Steve,

    As a customer for 2 years, the proof is in the pudding! We’ve saved bundles. It is only a tool, not a miracle worker and you do have to use the tool correctly but it really works well. It’s also a lifetime program. If you follow the blog you will find that customers are not the ones criticizing it only non-customers. In a world where people complain very easy (especially if they feel “ripped off”) don’t you think the customer would be the first to tell you if this was a SCAM. Customers love it and others are critical. I don’t understand why people don’t want the tool to help people. What do they have against something that really works great. It’s the best tool I’ve ever seen or heard of to help people eliminate debt.

  48. Eugene – Unfortunately, the customers of UFF are too ignorant to know there’s a better way. They don’t understand that they’ve flushed money down the toilet. Sad, but true.

  49. If my memory serves me, Eugene Seibert is agent number 833120.
    So you yourself are a fraud posing as a customer with no other interest except to help other people. In fact you don’t help people, you just get your cut of a product that adds no value to one’s finances or one’s life.

    Why do you not disclose this? I know – there a chance it’s merely a coincidence, I’m sure there are hundreds of Eugene Seiberts out there, perhaps you are not the agent?

  50. Well Joe I’m sure what he really meant was that he was a customer first and was just so happy that he became and agent, and woopsie, he forgot to mention that part.

  51. You are both wrong in your thinking. I indeed am an agent but yes also a customer and yes Tracy became an agent because of the love of the product. I speak as a client on this page because I have no benefit from any of the people on here and wanted to be sure that I was not trying to “attract” their business and thus have personal benefit to helping them. It is no benefit whatsoever to me if they purchase the software from whomever would be showing it to them. So, on the contrary, I left out the fact that I am an agent so that I would not be advertising for myself on this blog. All the things that I have mentioned have been true just the same and I want to see people get the benefit of the program in spite of whomever the agent may be showing it to them.

  52. Not one of the skeptics has yet to come up with a good reason why Ernst and Young (One of the largest accounting firms in the world … certainly not a company that knows anything) would give a prestigious award to the owners of UFF. No one is yet to help me understand why Success from Home Magazine would put UFF on the front cover with over 100 pages dedicated to the company. This magazine is all over America in National newsstands. UFF has also been front cover feature of Mortage Planner, Broker Banker, True Wealth and Real Estate Investor. Real Estate Investor also gave UFF an award. This is all documented. Usually national magazines don’t run large articles on fly-by-night, scam companies.

    You know what Joe and Tracy … you don’t have to like our product, nor even think that it is a good deal. That is your own choice. That is not the argument here. I entered this string simply because you portray UFF to be a SCAM and I think that it is a huge attack for a company that is truly helping people. Nothing about UFF is “scamming” people. They hide nothing, and they support what they sell with an incredible home office. I’ve never seen any kind of SCAM do anything like that.

  53. Of course we came up with a good reason for the E&Y award: The founders figured out a way to make gobs of money off unsuspecting consumers. That’s what the award is about – A good business plan and a profitable business. They didn’t evaluate the MMA product prior to giving the award.

    The magazine articles you mention are all the typical fluff pieces that are placed by PR people. They definitely don’t offer an independent analysis of the product. They simply parrot UFF’s talking points about the product. (And believe me.. Being in “Success from Home” magazine isn’t really a feather in anyone’s cap.)

    I think it’s fair to call anything a scam if it’s being marketed dishonestly, which UFF MMA is. They don’t tell people that they’ll spend less time and save more without the product. They make it seem like a wonder-product, touting “factorial math” and other b.s.

  54. Tracy,

    I’m sure you personally talked with Ernst and Young so you know that they hand out awards to companies they don’t check out. I’m sure you also talked with the editor of Real Estate Investor … if you had … you would have found that they did an extensive independent research on our company and all of the “competition” that claims to have similar products. They gave us an award upon completion of this research and said that UFF was head and shoulders above any company claiming to do a similar thing. How do I know this? Because I heard the editor of the paper IN PERSON in Atlanta say it with his own mouth. Why did he come to address a conference of several thousand agents … because he believes in the UFF mission which is to help as many people as possible become debt free. That is the real heartbeat of UFF and the owners who founded the company. If you were ever to meet them you would know that that is true as well. I don’t see where you are helping people to get out of debt at all. Certainly by just bashing UFF you are not helping anyone. As many of your bloggers have said here … when you have a tool (not just go do it … if it were so easy they would already be “doing it” and they would not be looking some place for help) that beats MMA than put it on the market.

    As for dishonest marketing. The company has not made a single dishonest claim. If you read the companies website of Q&A you will find they are very honest and straight forward with all their answers including the math and including the usage of the clients discretionary income. No fluff, no hype and no manipulation. And as for the cost of the software … we don’t hide that either. It is what it is and it does what it does. If you want to drive across the country you can buy a $5.00 map or you can by a $300 GPS. Neither is right and niether is wrong … it is up to the client to decide whether the cost of the product is worth what the tool will help them to accomplish. Most clients agree that it is well worth the cost and you simply refuse to acknowledge that at all even when they get on your blog and tell you so. You simply revert to calling anyone who disagrees with you stupid and leave it at that.

    Speaking of mis-information in marketing. Do you think Pepsi-Cola company is a scam? How about Crest toothpaste? If you want to talk about lies in marketing. Almost every commercial on television is a lie and yet no one is even complaining about this? UFF makes great effort to add no fluff or hype on the webpage or articles published. Simple and straightforward … the proof is in the pudding and the proof is the results!

    As the old saying goes … “Man who says it cannot be done should not interrupt man who is doing it.” Myself and the tens of thousands of clients with UFF will continue using our software and smile while we’re doing it. I’m very close to being debt free as we speak and I am very thankful for MMA helping me to get there.

  55. Eugene – You could be even CLOSER to being out of debt without UFF, but sadly you’re too ignorant to understand that.

    Yes, I do consider it dishonest marketing when UFF is promoting “using the bank’s money to pay down your debt” or other such misleading statements. I consider it dishonest marketing to say “I saved $80,000 in interest on my mortgage by paying only $200 in interest on my HELOC this month as instructed by UFF.” That is a complete LIE, but it sure is catchy when trying to sell the software.

    You and other UFF agents have tried to use the “people aren’t doing it on their own” argument as a reason to use UFF. But such an assertion is false if one just uses logic and reason…. If you have a person not interested in paying down their debt or focusing on their finances, are they more likely to spend $3,500 and several hours per month with a clunky inefficient piece of software? Or are they more likely to spend $0 and 10 minutes a month with a free and easy to use spreadsheet that will get their debts paid off faster?

    The truth is that the person who doesn’t care about finances is not going to care about it just because they wasted $3,500.

    Your comparison to a map and GPS is all wrong. The truth? UFF is a map that costs $3,500. And GPS is the free spreadsheet. I’ll take the GPS, thank you.

  56. Eugene,

    You said:

    “No one is yet to help me understand why Success from Home Magazine would put UFF on the front cover with over 100 pages dedicated to the company. This magazine is all over America in National newsstands.”

    I can help. Click my name to read a detailed post debunking the “independant 3rd party validation” myth that so many agents claim. The short of it: the parent company VideoPlus L.P. uses it to sell magazines to clients of MLM/direct selling companies and to, in their words (from VP whitepaper), “subtly reassur[e] readers this magazine is offering a solid third party look at the featured direct selling company.” And my favorite, “As you consider INVESTING in a third parth magazine…”

    UFF wants you to buy it (remember how it was first offered in your back office only in 10, 24, and 48 packs?) They want to recoup their “investment”. They want you to believe this was some national, independent magazine that was blown away with the product.

    As for Broker Banker magazine, well executive publisher Brian Topor has been an UFF agent since early 2007.

    True Wealth Magazine “is published by Cutting Edge Medio, Inc., founded in 1991 in attempts to become the leading provider of marketing, advertising, and lead generation solutions for the home business industry.” Looking at their website, you see the statement, “UFirst agents, click here for your special edition.” Agents buying copies of promotional magazines must be good business.

    You can have Andrew Waite.

  57. Eugene…I have first hand experience with the dishonest practices of UFF. This product was sold to a family member of mine, who’s monthly expenses exceed her monthly income. It says all over your website that this product should not be for her…and yet, she has purchased it, and due to her computer ignorance, is on the phone with the “home office” or support call center, and yet, NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE has informed her that this software is not for her. Interesting isn’t it?

  58. Marcy – Be prepared for a standard response like “There may be a few bad agents but that doesn’t mean the product is bad.” Can you help force the issue so UFF refunds her money?

  59. So I did my research on these accelerated mortgage payment soft wares.

    -There are about 5 of them including, United First Financial (UFF). UFF is the most expensive at a whopping $3500. The cheapest is $995. This means a majority must go to commissions paid on tier level output.
    -your monthly net income must exceed your total monthly debts in order for it to work.
    -Need a HELOC or line a credit with a low interest rate. If you use a HELOC, there may be tax advantages.
    -Paying off 10-15 years faster is obtainable if your mortgage is around $200-300K and you pay an extra $400 a month. If you have a larger mortgage and pay less to principal, paying off WILL take longer.
    -if you suck at paying your bills on time, have multiple credit card balances at high interest rates, or too lazy to research how to help yourself then a software prgram is for you.

    To me, paying down your 1st Mortgage quicker does not need an software. The ONLY good advantage with the software is seeing exactly how much years you cut off by paying more principal at a monthly basis. I’m sure someone good with excel can create a formula for this (or use this website link http://www.americanfinancing.net/calculators/what-if-i-pay-more-calculator.php )

    Simple rules to follow:
    -Consolidate all credit card debt into one low interest rate line (personal or HELOC). Credit cards can have 20% interest rate. If you have a line at 5-6%, you are saving a lot
    – Make a list of items you spend and from there, budget yourself. Example…eat more at home and bring home lunch, shop around for lower insurance premiums, rent movies instead of going to theater, use food coupons
    -keep credit card balances to a minimum or pay it all off at the end of the month
    -with the money extra saved from budgeting and consolidating debt, pay directly to principal on 1st mortgage. The more you pay to principal, the faster you pay off mortgage.

    With a little research, you can put the $3500 software fee directly to the principal and you are on your way to paying off your 1st mortgage quicker.

  60. Tracey,
    You are obviously some what retarded and should be riding a little yellow bus. Please be informed on a topic before you choose to bash it.

  61. Hi Tim – No sense in using any FACTS to prove your apparent differing opinion on this topic, eh?

  62. Tim,

    Wow, you went from “Tracey,” to the ad hominem attack in record time. Of course, by attacking Tracey instead of her points, you immediately lost any chance you had at winning the argument in record time as well.

    To any interested 3rd-party readers who are researching the Money Merge Account – this is common United First Financial agent behavior. They’ll be nice to you and recite the marketing like a pro, but they have no idea what they’re talking about, and mortgages are likely more of a mystery to them than they are to you. When faced with criticism of the MMA, they can’t debate the subject, so they lash out instead.

  63. On the bright side, at least he was direct and to the point, as opposed to those rambling 4000-word, poorly punctuated rants that Mary Kay distributers are so fond of.

    Still, Tim’s not exactly Socrates, is he?

  64. FraudFiles readers might be interested in this list I came across in an unrelated discussion elsewhere. It’s a checklist of attributes that characterize a cult. Do any of these attributes sound like any MLM’s you know of?

    The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

    ? Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

    ? Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

    ? The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

    ? The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

    ? The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

    ? The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

    ? The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members’ participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

    ? The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

    ? Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

    ? The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

    ? The group is preoccupied with making money.

    ? Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

    ? Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

    ? The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

  65. You might want to include insurance and real estate companies as a cult then, because they have similar structured payouts to owners/agents.

    At the end of the day, UFF’s product does what it says it will do and is a very viable product…their agents are trained and are given specific ethical guidelines in writing as how the product is to be presented and represented…..doesn’t sound like a scam to me….and you DON’T need a HELOC to do it. Thats just one example that is used. You can also use personal lines of credit, business lines of credit, or credit cards.

    Sure there may be more than one way to accomplish paying off debt quickly, just as you can shop at Wal Mart or Target; Burger King or McDonalds; do it yourself or go to a restaurant.

  66. Sorry, Michelle, but the insurance agent and real estate examples are not comparable to UFF. UFF is a recruiting scheme, the others are legitimate businesses.

    The UFF software does not do what it says, and I’m glad you chose this thread on which to post your comment. One of the selling points is that you can “use the bank’s money” to pay off your debt. That’s completely false. So in fact, the product does NOT do what the agents say it does.

  67. If you don’t think real estate and insurance people don’t get kick backs and residuals from people under them….I’ve got some swamp land in the desert to sell you.

  68. I suppose you would tell me that when someone does a high rate credit card balance transfer to a lower rate credit card….that they aren’t using the bank to pay off a card and save hundreds of dollars in interest, right? ummmm….ok.

  69. WOW!!!! It appears to be getting pretty nasty out there.

    A shell game by any other name is still a shell game. What I cannot believe is that there are people wasting their time debating over whether it makes sense to “borrow” money from one source… at a higher interest rate simply to pay off debt at a lower interest rate somewhere else. IT NEVER WORKS!!!! Hasn’t our current national economic condition taught anyone a lesson??? Additionally, as I’ve taken the time to review a number of the earlier posts, I have a couple of points to make. First, ALL mortgages are simple interest. The only differences between a “traditional” mortgage and a HELOC are the ability with a HELOC to access the credit line once a balance has been paid down, pay interest only, and watch the interest rate vary with the Fed Funds Rate, since most HELOC’s are based on “Prime”. Historically, and certainly now, HELOCs have higher interest rates than traditional mortgages.

    I am not going to waste time getting into any kind of debate over the MLM aspect of UFF (or any other business), but I will say that ALL businesses at some level or another have a multi-level compensation structure. That does not make any of them good or bad (including UFF). Unfortunately, with UFF, there is an expressed value to paying a lot of money up front for something that simply breaks down to discipline and personal spending habits. Something which I feel is not a wise choice.

  70. UFF is a SCAM.
    Borrowing at 8% to cover 6% loan will make you less money.
    Paying down your mortgage directly (instead of using HELOC) will put you ahead.
    Simple short-term interest VS compounding long-term interest: this is just a marketing lie. HELOC uses monthly compounding interest, same as your mortgage.
    The only way to pay off your mortgage faster (and to save on the interest) is to increase your monthly payments. You think that you saved thousands of dollars with UFF, but this is not true. You saved thousands of dollars by increasing your monthly payments. You’d save another 10-15% by not using UFF and simply doubling your mortgage payment.
    $100,000 at 6% for 25 years = approx. $640/month
    $100,000 at 6% for 7 years = approx. $1460/month
    WOW! I just reduced my mortgage from 25 years to 7 years and saved thousands of dollars! UFF uneducated retards may think that this is magic, but this is actually simple mathematical computations.

    UFF makes you lose $3,500 up front, and some more down the road. And that’s the only truth.
    UFF is a SCAM.

  71. Maybe people can do it alone without the investments or wasteful spending like some would say but how many Americans are willing to do all the research themselves? How many even understand the language of investors, bankers, financial specialist, ect.
    One thing is clear here to me one way or another you will make a choice either you like it or you don’t.
    What do you think the response would have been 50 years ago to a Blackberry cell phone 🙂
    How many nay sayers would back that something like this would be created?

  72. It seems to me that the $3500 seems to be the issue with everyone complaining not the actual product. Show me the facts about why it doesn’t work (Not from blogs or people with no credibility)There is always going to be some that have to find a reason for an argument not to like something. I haven’t seen anyone (yet) bash the product itself. We know there are those smart enough to figure out the math and good for them they may never pay anyone for anything because they can do it lol jk but really I see the MMA helping people do the work for people who want to keep it simple.

  73. Paige – You need to read the other articles about the product on this site. We’ve discussed over and over what’s wrong with the product.

    “Smart enough to do the math”????

    “The math” is one addition/subtraction problem. If someone can’t do that, they certainly can’t use the software on a computer.

  74. Can we finally put this issue to rest? I am not a client of the program because I have no debt nor am I affiliated with the company but I have had the program explained to me several times and there are a few bits of the equation that are being left out of the interest comparison scenario. I have read numerous times that is makes no sense to borrow money at 8% to pay down a debt at 6% and that sounds logical but Tracy, please consider the following:

    If you were to borrow let’s say $7500 from your HELOC for the purpose of pre-paying your mortgage at 8% you’d have an interest only cost of $50 per month. What you fail to mention in your comments is that part of the whole idea behind using the HELOC is to replace the functionality of a traditional checking account. Most checking accounts pay very little if any rate of return on your deposits. So instead of parking your paychecks in a checking account where the money sits earning you basically nothing, you deposit your full paycheck into your HELOC as a payment. It’s important to note that you still have the same access to your money (or the line of credit) through checks and a debit card. Going back to this example, lets say you earn $2500 semi-monthly for a total of $5000 in net monthly income paid on the 15th and the 30th. Over the course of the month your balance in the HELOC will flucuate as your income (deposits) are paid in and your expenses are paid out of the account. Let’s assume for the ease of math that you spend $500 less than you earn each month. This means that every month you will reduce the balance in your HELOC by $500 minus the cost of interest. Let’s examine the net effect of this method. The first thing to mention is that with a HELOC you are charged interest on the average daily balance of the account, not the months end balance. Based on our example and depending on the timing of the $4500 worth of expenses, the HELOC balance could have been at one point as low as $2500 or as high as $7000. Because of the average daily balance calculation, the actual amount they were charged interest on was most likely somewhere in the middle. Let’s assume for this example that the average daily balance of the HELOC was $4750. I realize this average is completely dependant on he timing of the expenses. The interest cost on $4750 at 8% would be $31.67. Here’s the fun part. At the beginning of the month you borrowed $7500 and prepaid your mortgage. This caused a principal reduction of $7500 and forced an advancement of the ammortization schedule on your mortgage. Simply put, out of the same monthly payment you now have a little bit more money going to principal for every month going forward. Now there needs to be an explanation of stated vs. effective interest rates. So while the month’s end balance is $7000 and yes the HELOC has a stated interest rate of 8%, you used $7500 to prepay your mortgage and paid just $31.67 in interest because you used your income to offset the average daily balance of the HELOC. The effective interest rate in this example works out to be 5.067%, not 8%. It’s my understanding that the purpose of the software is to manage the specific amount of money you borrow from the HELOC and when so that your income more fully minimizes the interest cost. By borrowing a dollar amount more appropriately matched with your income and cash flow, it would be possible to get the effective interest rate even lower. Eventually over a period of months, your discretionary (or the $500 left over) will pay down the HELOC and the system will repeat itself. According to my understanding it would not be necessary to wait until the balance is back at zero since the carrying cost of the HELOC is so relatively cheap. Keep in mind that if the HELOC is attached to your own residence, the interest is usually tax deductible therefore reducing its effective cost even more.

    Let’s look at the pesky mortgage once more. Assuming a $200,000 fixed mortgage at 6%, your PITI is $1199.10 and over 30 years you’ll pay $431,676. The effective interest rate for this loan becomes 116% even though the loan is calculated on a fixed 6% ammortization schedule. To be completely fair, if you paid the $500 every month like clockwork to your mortgage without fail, you’d have the same loan paid off in almost exactly 15 years and save $129,000 in interest in the process. Whether anyone is capable of applying every dime of discretionary income to their mortagage is up for debate. What isnt up for debate is the strategy of using a HELOC to pre-pay your mortgage with HELOC funds and using your income to offset the potential interest. Its fact that your income will manipulate the average daily balance in effect reducing the effective interest rate of the HELOC. Whether this method is faster than using the payment + $500 strategy would ultimately depend on the discipline of the homeowner and the practicality of sending every available dime to your mortgage each month.

    Here’s my summary. Given that our country is in a precarious position with the large number of foreclosures and massive amount of debt that we have collectively accumulated, it’s obvious that we have a problem. Only 8 states in this country have a basic financial literacy requirement as part of the secondary education system. Debt has reached an all time high as alleged in the newspapers and by other financial “experts.” If it was as easy as some of the comments on this post make it seem, why are we in so much trouble as a nation? I would also love to hear from those who dislike the program, what have been your own results your your own strategies? Are you mortgage free? Have you paid off your houses in as little as 1/2 to 1/3 the time as claimed is possible through the MMA? The cost of the program should not be of so much concern. The average cost of a refinance is easily more than $3500 and consumers will gladly refinance several times just to lower their payments and add another 30 year term to their debt – easily adding to the overall cost and increasing the effective cost of their mortgage. Worse, they are using the little bit of equity they’ve built in the first few years traditionally to cover refi costs. The price aside, if the MMA has a success rate of anything even close to what they claim, what is the value of helping people achieve this goal? Obviously $3500 is a large sum of money by any standard but the standard that should be used to measure the value of this program is the success rate of its clients. Assuming that even with the other suggestions made on this post, the evidence shows that a relatively small percentage of consumers have the inclination or know how to implement these strategies on their own with any measure of success. I realize this doesn’t speak too highly of the average American but that is the sad reality of our day. So..if a program even at the cost of $3500 helps people become accountable and it turn allows them to own their home and be debt free with any large percentage of success the net result means its still a value. Look at it this way. At the end of the day or more like the end of 30 years from now, would you rather have people save $3500 and not be ble to retire because they didn’t manage their money or time properly? Or would you rather have a generation of people that paid for a system that held them accountable and gave them the roadmap to debt freedom? What price would you put on the latter? Getting people out of debt needs to be the end result, whether is costs them $3500 or not.

    Tracy, I hope this has been an unbiased look at not only the math but the root problem. You cant simply say that 8% HELOC money is more expensive than 6% mortgage money without taking into account that the purpose of the program is to use their income to reduce the effective interest rate well below the interest rate of the mortgage. I believe my example showed this average daily balance manipulation effectively.

    What are your thoughts Tracy? I appreciate your time and look forward to your feedback. Have a wonderful day.

  75. MJ – Your scenario sounds nice, but it’s just plain wrong. You’re asking us to pretend that you’ve paid $7500 down on the regular mortgage for a full month, while only having that $7500 on the HELOC for 2/3 of a month (that’s what you’re saying with that $4750 average balance). Money simply doesn’t work that way. You’re calculating an effective interest rate of 5.067% which is completely fictional because you’ve got the math wrong.

    So the borrower is still borrowing 8% money to pay down 6% money, which is a loser.

    Yes, there is a small amount of money to be “made” by the debtor who uses the HELOC by depositing their paycheck. We’ve acknowledged that many times here. The problem is that the savings are typically a few dollars a month (maybe as much as $15 or $20 for some). And that savings is more than wiped out by the $3500 cost of the product (and the interest paid on that $3500 if it’s financed).

  76. “Using the banks money” – We started out by taking out a loan called a mortgage, using the bank’s money. Now that it’s time to pay the loan back, we need to get the money from somewhere. Usually, it comes out of our paycheck. But MMA claims that if we use a HELOC, we are not using our money anymore, we are using the bank’s money. But, wait, we started all this by using the bank’s money to take out a mortgage and now we have to pay it back. So that means if we use the bank’s money by taking a loan out of the HELOC, we have to pay that back, too. So all we did was postpone having to pay the bank back by using the HELOC money to pay the mortgage. We still have to pay the HELOC back. Where is that money going to come from? Out of our paycheck. So why should we spend $3500 on MMA to play a money shell game with a HELOC?

    “Interest cancellation” – MMA claims that by loading up the HELOC and running our paychecks through the HELOC, we reduce the balance so much that we save lots of money that way, and that alone is worth $3500. OK, so how much can we save? Well, let’s assume our mortgage rate is 6%. That means each month, we are charged 1/2% on our mortgage balance, the whole balance. But if we are using interest cancellation, the most that we can save is whatever our monthly salary is. So, if we bring home $5,000, the largest HELOC balance we can offset is $5,000. How much will that save? $5,000 times 1/2% is $25. That’s $25 per month or $300 per year. So MMA wants you to spend $3500 upfront to save $300 per year. Do you know how much interest you would save if you just put $3500 towards your 6% mortgage? OVER $4,000.

    “Factorial math” – MMA claims no one except a computer can figure out the best possible way to pay all your bills and debts because of all the possible combinations. LIES. There is only one SIMPLE BEST way to pay off all your debts. You pay off the highest interest debt first and work your way down using a DEBT SNOWBALL. It only needs addition and subtraction.

  77. MJ –
    Last I recall, I authored a guest post here regarding the HELOC shuffle. THe shuffle ‘can’ work, but in the most extreme example won’t produce savings of more than $300/year (given the constraints of the classic example $200K mort, $5k income, etc.) On average, it would likely save closer to $150/yr. Once I watched the UFF videos, I saw that the system is not accurate even to save the small sum. It over-borrows on the HELOC and costs you extra money. The rest of your post is just a tangent. Regardless of the state of anything, one should pay their mortgage off without getting ripped off by a third party scam.

    And while Jimmy has been a great fellow naysayer, his calculator key got stuck. The $3500 at 6% over 30 years is $20000. This is what MMA costs you, $20000. $20000 to save $164K in interest you can save on your own for $0.

  78. I have been using the MMA program for about a year and a half now and sware by it. The bank has pretty much gotten to the point where they don’t (can’t really) send me statements because they cannot keep up with the interest. Though I can reconcile the account much in the same fashion as I would a regular checking account. I’ve reduced my 30 year mortgage to 12.5 years (expected) payoff and saved in thousands of dollars in interest costs already. Not only is the principal concept of this program, using an advanced algorithm, ideal for it’s intended purpose, it also shows the projected “true cost” of a considered purchase which is great for considering the real picture down the road on what you are actually going to spend. It also forces one, or rather “teaches” one to implement a budget on a monthly basis. Now, If you can claim to do all this on your own, and perhaps if you are extremely, mathmatically inclined, then good for you, you have a real knack for (and alot of time) to do it. Otherwise, it is a true investment for me. Another thing to keep in mind, and what actually makes this program work, the algorithm, is something you cannot figure out to DIY. Once the interest is paid off on the LOC, the advanced payments really begin on the mortgage interest. ONce you are at a required level you are instructed to make a payment. using this figure, the mortgage is paid down with in the required time. By simply paying down advanced payments on your mortgage or other debts, you do nothing more than pay it down quicker. Keep in mind that in some states, there is a penalty for paying down a debt in advance of it’s schedule.

  79. April – I am glad you are happy. I’ve proven, here, and elsewhere, that (A) I can show anyone how to do it one their own, (B) it will take less time doing it my way than the MMA way, far less in fact, and (C) they will save more, as the MMA math is flawed, also something I never tire of proving.

  80. Why do people continue to believe the myth that paying down your mortgage faster is complicated? This algorithm is BOGUS! Of course, it exists. But it does nothing better than what one can do with one simple math problem each month…

  81. I think it’s the powerpoint slides. The UFirst videos, while mathematically incorrect are well done. People are so desperate to believe there’s hope that instead of learning the truth, and advancing their math skills to a 5th grade level, would prefer to feel they are being ‘guided.’ No different than some of the cult religions. I suppose in a sad way that removing choice feels like a burden have been taken off one’s shoulders.
    Respectfully, I disagree with your last few words. There is NO math problem at all. At months’ end, one should pay any extra funds to their mortgage. It’s a stretch to suggest this actually uses any math as they need to write that mortgage check anyway.
    The math required for constant recalculation of final payoff date is less than trivial, and beyond the innumerate client. Took me a few hours to write that spreadsheet one weekend. On the other hand, one can easily doe the math (again for final payoff) on a TI calculator, the BA II Plus Financial Calculator. I’m sad to say the BA-35 is no longer in production. It was the first piece of electronics I fell in love with…..

  82. After reading most of this argument, I have to say your both right. (Tracy & Thomas morphing into Eugene). The problem here is discipline. The United First gig is a tool to help people keep disciplined enough to pay off their debts with their “extra cash”. I refinanced my house in the mid 90s and planned on paying it off in less than ten years. Something called “life” happened in the meantime and it’s still not paid off. A few months ago my massuse turned me on to UFF. It’s not working for me because my outgo is greater than my income. If I can discipline myself better I know it will work and it helps me keep an eye on my terrible spending habits. The HELOC has a lesser interest rate than the credit cards I paid off, and I recently got notices from them that their interest rates are going up, so I’m ahead there I suppose, but the UFF is helping me see where my money is going so it will help me stop spending recklessly and be more, I’ll say it again, “disciplined”. (Discipline is not an end in itself, only a means to an end. Robert Fripp & King Crimson)

  83. Billy,

    Here’s a thought…could spending $3500 on a piece of software with far inferior budgeting tools than a $80 copy of Quicken or MS Money be part of the “discipline” problem?

    You needed help sticking to a budget, but you didn’t buy budgeting software. You bought a broken mortgage accelerator.

  84. The concept behind the money merge account is a paradigm shift.

    Anyone who slams this phenomenal software cannot think “outside the box”. The fact that this software has been proven effective many times over by people who use it in the way it is intended to be used is not enough for people who live inside the reality that others have defined for them.

    Look up “paradigm shift” and you will understand how small your world is, and only because you do not care to think beyond what you have learned from other “educated” individuals.

  85. I will admit that the concept of flushing $3,500 down the toilet on inefficient and worthless software that causes me to pay off my debts slower than without it…. that is definitely a foreign concept to me.

  86. “One person making stuff up is a liar. A bunch of people making stuff up are creating a new paradigm” – Red & Blue

    Idiots.

  87. Excellent post Tracy. These UFF guys are slick snake-oil salesmen, conning the naive into believing that if you borrow at a higher HELOC rate in order to pay down a conventional mortgage (most often at a lower rate), YOU WILL SAVE MONEY?!??!? How! Why, it’s MAGIC!

    And here in Utah, when you throw a little faith-healing into the mix, why – you’ve got yourself another MLM to sell! Now, add some teary-eyed testimonials (as some of your respondents have done)well, you’re on your way to millions. If you try to use analysis and logic – watch out, they’ll turn on you (see posts above). What do the creeps at UFF do? Do they actually do any factual analysis? Heavens no! They just trudge out more weeping testimonials – the most common ploy in snake-oil MLMs.

    Tracy – keep fighting the good fight! UFFers are nothing but scammers, trying to separate fools from their money.

    Folks, keep the $3,500 and pay down your debt – you’ll be much better in the long run.

  88. Are yuou sure that what you say is fact? We never said it was magic, the problem that you guys have is transferrance of knowledge. Could you teach a person to do it and when something does not add up right will you be there for that person? And just how much of your time do you want to spend trying to figure out what the software is doing instantly. I don’t know about you but convenience is cool. The other thing if everyone was so smart why are they not currently doing it. Our software gives a person instant discipline. How about this one,most people will spend $3000 to $10000 in closing fees to get in debt, and not only to get in debt but over time most will pay the lender twice the original amountof the property in the first place. Here is a thought people can clean their own houses, but there are some people who pay people for to do it for them. The question is not of price but of benefit. For a lot of people it’s not about the money it’s about their time, which they would like more of, and certainty of knowing when they will be out of debt. A system that is and has been proven, ernst and young, personal real estate invester mag. and many others have endorsed our product who endorses yours.

  89. Thank you for that bit of eloquent wording.

    E&Y didn’t endorse UFF.

    UFF is not convenient. It wastes tons of time. And the company isn’t therefore anyone, except if it’s to collect that check. Otherwise your debts are your problem…. just use the software and shut up. Paying down your debt is simple, and this software doesn’t create discipline in anyone.

  90. Ellick: “We never said it was magic, the problem that you guys have is transferrance of knowledge. Could you teach a person to do it and when something does not add up right will you be there for that person? And just how much of your time do you want to spend trying to figure out what the software is doing instantly.”

    Here’s the complicated algorithm to reduce debt at the most rapid rate, Ellick.

    1. Cut expenses as much as possible.
    2. Do you have any money left at the end of month/week/whatever?
    If yes, pay the leftover money against highest cost debt.
    If no, cut expenses further and/or increase income.
    3. Rinse and repeat.

    (please send me $3,500)

    Mel said: “Anyone who slams this phenomenal software cannot think “outside the box””.

    Mel, the math is very much inside the conventional box of any spreadsheet app or financial calculator. The box you are outside of is the “ethical box”.

  91. Ellick – Why not talk some numbers with us?
    $200K Mort, 6% int, 30yr. HELOC available at the same 6%. No other debts to consider, and just $200/mo after all expenses are done. The client has income of $2500 twice per mo net.
    Want to tell us what your system can do with this?

    To be blunt about it, the analogies, hyperbole and ad hominem attacks are all getting boring. From Tracy’s blog here, and agent sites, I keep reading how one must enter their transactions, every penny spent every day, into the software. One agent considers it a ‘good’ thing that you can “text the software from your cell phone to see if today is the optimum day to buy the steak that’s on sale at the grocery store.” Yet, right now, I handle my money every other week, and when I choose to make an extra prepayment on my mortgage, it’s about a 15 second transaction. The endorsers you cite are either award sponsors, or trade journals, so what? And your clean the house analogy fails at so many levels I don’t know where to start. But let me spell it out for you, the people who clean our house get about 1/3 of my wife’s or my hourly wage. So we spend 1 hr of wage to save 3 hours of our time. You suggest that one spend about a full month’s wage to then waste a few hours of time per month and come up short on their mortgage. Last I went head to head with the MMA program, it came up months short even if it were free. The $3500 just put it further behind.

    Take the challenge above.

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