The “Tools Scam” Run By Quixtar (Amway) Kingpins


The following is basically an expose on Amway/Quixtar corruption centering around the kingpin sellers of business service materials and the problem a Quixtar distributor believes goes the the heart of the entire Amway/Quixtar problem. This post is compliments of Quixtar is a Cult.

Exactly how rational are Quixtar (Amway) IBOs? I have some issues I want everyone to examine whether they be an IBO or anyone interested in all things Amway. This post also asks IBOs to test their rationality against the important issues raised herein.

I am always amazed that many discussions on this and other Amway blogs do not fully address the correct issue that is the #1 problem facing the company in the 21st century. No matter how many differing Amway issues I see, everything invariably comes “full circle” back to the TOOL SCAM. All conversations, and discourse dealing with Amway almost always revolve around what “Tex” calls the “Lying Cowardly Kingpins” or “LCK” for short.Tex, a very different sort of new age IBO coined this term and has been vociferously expressing his views throughout the Quixtar/Amway blogosphere making him both a crusader and a pariah to many. I admire Tex’s chutzpah to pierce the comfort zone of Quixtar Independent Business Owners, tool kingpins distributors and company executives alike which he makes it his mission to confronts on an ongoing basis. Tex stands out, he is an IBO of some renown as he spear-heads an effort to kick start the kind of change that Amway fails to make and many other IBOs have been hiding their heads in the sand about.

At this point, a few words about Tex might be helpful for readers who need an introduction. Tex retains an online presence and views himself as an advocate for a changes he believes Amway must make to keep the Quixtar/Amway business opportunity viable. He wants Amway to throw off the shackles of predatory kingpin distributors and the current system which he believes serves their interest at the expense of IBOs who are struggling to make the opportunity work for them.

Tex has credentials as a well known critic of the tool scam and has been interviewed on the Q-Blog Podcast, has taken on the industry “insider”, ibofightback, David Steadson, in a toe to toe debate over all issues Amway in which Steadson has booted Tex from his The Truth About Amway forum. Seems like Tex has a way of getting under the saddle of Amway blog administrators and has also been banned from the Quixtar Blog and also Joecool’s The Dream or the Scheme Blog. Tex is anything but resourceful and his being banished from forums and discussions has not silenced him and his message.

Amway recently invited Tex to Prague for a symposium on the blogosphere where he discussed his views on the tool scam and met with other people who’s presence online got them an invite. I’ve had a chance to have a lengthy discussion with Tex and he is very personable and easy to speak with. His online writing style doesn’t necessary do him justice as some people might find his style of debate abrasive. Could this judgment be more from disagreement with his views and say something about their own combative debating tactics? If getting oneself booted from blog and forum discussions were a virtue, Tex would indeed be named a saint.

People already involved in the Quixtar/Amway online discussion really need no introduction to Tex’s ideas or the opposing viewpoints of the industry insider, ibofightback. Controversy seems to follow Tex as he journeys through cyberspace, but I view that as a good thing. Tex may not be a Ghandi over the tool scandal issue, but he is steadfast in his pursuit of change which Amway refuses to make, despite all the discord that the scandal has brought to Quixtar and continues to stir among IBO insiders and critics, whether inside or outside of the business. Tex is regarded with considerable scorn by the Tool Kingpins which he hammers at with his “Lying Cowardly Kingpins” description and if eyes could shoot daggers, he would probably be hit!

The kingpin distributors Tex describe sit on top of a monopoly business, the sale of motivational training materials and the “function” business and more commonly just called “tools”. These tools make up the “how to” information to become successful in the Amway business opportunity. (In my opinion, these tools do not substitute for a conventional business education because they lack a focus on commonly accepted business practices which the kingpin distributors obviously do not wish to promote.)

That being said, I have been persuaded by Tex that if someone intends to get into the business (against my advice), at least some training tools are necessary, although Tex feels these tools should not come with the price tag of scandal and are at heart of the problem that makes the pursuit of this business so fraught with loss for so many. (I believe IBOs become caught up in a cult-like relationship to these tools and the upline mentoring which is absolutely insane!) The oppo rtunity in its present incarnation is merely an IBOs opportunity to make the sellers of these tools their king’s ransom in filthy lucre!

Tex says there is a “big lie” that proponents of the opportunity promoted as gospel truth which says says success in Quixtar comes from the sale of products and commissions paid by the company to its IBOs and this farce hides the fact that the pictured success stories displayed to prospects comes from tool profits and not from Quixtar/Amway. (Isn’t this the focus of the 2004 Dateline expose on corruption in Quixtar?) These tools sales create a market for a product that doesn’t have a retail consumer outside of the Amway distributor network, totally unrelated to the products offered by Amway (supposedly) for resale to retail customers. Tex described to me how these upline kingpins through lesser downline pins promote these materials to the entire downline organization.

The incredible cost of tools, the “Standing Order Tapes”, seminars, and attendance at quarterly rallies create a “meat grinder” situation for new distributors who begin their experience in the business by making an incredible deficit of spending that produces loss from the start and spurs potential long-term distributors to leave the business showing zero profit what so ever. Many of these ex-IBOs put the boxes of books, tapes, CDs, magazines, and videos they’ve accumulated for sale on ebay hoping to receive pennies back on the dollar. I’ve noticed that many times these tapes, CDs and books receive no bids and remain relatively worthless. The kingpins have already made their pound of flesh by this time and their downline IBOs will bring in new recruits to keep tool sales going. This is the “DIRTY LITTLE SECRET” of their “LITTLE QUIXTAR CULT” and it relies on the P.T. Barnum’s idea that “a new sucker is born every day.”

The constant flux of people joining, buying tools, and then quitting is what makes pin level success for dedicated IBOs so incredibly difficult to achieve. This matters not at all to the kingpin distributor of tools because these “replacement” recruits are the true target customers for their ware and become the “Simple Simon” the upline the kingpins so need to make their tool scam work! This is the sad truth of the tool scandal and what Tex believes every IBO must view as the number #1 problem they confront.

Tex paints a very realistic picture of how the system currently works. As in any occupation, a person must invest in tools of the trade; a carpenter must have a hammer, saw, ladders, and so forth, and the same thing applies with a sales job, but which are more educational than material in nature. Of course there will be the ever present easel, poster pad, and marker pens. This would apply whether a person was “selling” the Amway opportunity or selling a product line in another industry outside of MLM.

Tex says salesmen in the traditional business world are always being taught and encouraged to remain enthusiastic; their company may send them to training seminars and provide them with additional educational material as part of their employment. In Amway, the distributor pays out of pocket for all these things to include seminars and rallies to inspire enthusiasm. It is easy to see how distributors are forced into the mouth of the “tool sales money extraction machine” by upline mentors allowing the kingpins to sock piles of green back under their mattress. Is it any wonder that new distributors end up prematurely discouraged and eventually quit a system that basically takes advantage of them from the start and almost always guarantees they will lose money? Tex believes this should not have to be.

This is the current bad state of affairs that Tex described to me. My personal views of the business are no where near as optimistic as Tex, after all he is an IBO and I am not. I align myself with all the people who have been harmed and are being harmed by the business. My view is that not only the tool pyramid scheme exists, but also a product based one as well. My view is that both groups should be put out of business so the utter fleecing and pernicious harm done might finally be brought to an end. That being said, Tex holds his view of things which might make sense if one is currently an IBO and has already sacrificed so very much to the business, not wanting to see the “baby” thrown out with the bad “bath water”. The baby here being the “company” and the bath water being the “tool kingpins”.

Tex advocates drastic changes be made; these changes he believes will put some potential profit back into the business and stop many of the new distributors from being run through the tool kingpin’s money making machine and subsequently being forced out of the business by lack of profit and unfulfilled expectations. Tex further describes long term IBOs as being much like a carpenter who has been in his trade for a long time. They are no longer as profitable to the kingpin sellers of tools because they are already saturated with tools and require much less in regards to these materials. The idea being that a carpenter does not need to constantly buy tools that he already has on hand; he has the saw horses, the ladder jacks and the like that, and once bought need not be bought again so the local hardware store see less of him.

Tex’s point is this: the kingpins perpetuate a system that quickly renders the opportunity unprofitable and keeps it that way. The new distributors are encouraged that they must buy the tools and then they very quickly find themselves in a catch 22 situation. Many new IBOs buy tools for a while, drop out and do not renew their business; they make their IBO recruiter anguish over the situation because he or she is trying to run up an escalator that is always going down, and must constantly keep replacing those IBOs that leave with a fresh enthusiastic face. Tex’s view is that this works out perfectly for the kingpin sellers to the detriment of everyone else in the business.

Each enthusiastic distributor showing the plan has an upline pin with a hidden agenda encouraging him/her onward. These upline platinum, emerald, or diamond pins have their own interests foremost in mind as their bread is buttered by selling tools, and encourage their downline IBOs to keep recruiting the ma ny new IBOs the tool business requires. New IBOs are in the kingpin’s cross hairs and become canon fodder for these sellers of deceit who Tex says really operate a “bait and switch” con job. I most emphatically agree with this observation!

I believe that Tex’s view of the current state of affairs within the Amway business opportunity is correct. This flies in the face of all the deceit that online pundit ibofightback David Steadson constantly pushes to keep IBOs operating in their current state of self deception. The current tool kingpin is a vulture feeding on the flesh of all the IBOs and revelations of this scandal SCREAMS OUT FOR CHANGE! People falling for the deception move forward in cult-like lockstep with their upline fellows forming “the business cult” to their own undoing.

For IBOs in the business steadfastly devoted to making the opportunity somehow work, wholesale changes to the tool system would be of incredible help! It would keep more people in it for the potential long term benefits and provide an improved chance for short term profitability. This should make good sense to any IBO. Tex believes that resolving the tool scam and vanquishing the tool kingpins would resolve many if not all of the problems with Amway. He believes the tide would stop going out and start coming in again and this would raise all IBO ships.

Tex’s arguments are based on those of the company founder Rich Devos. Founder Devos expressed his views passionately in his Directly Speaking tapes. Tex points to these views as the correct answer to the problems confronting the entire company today now in the 21st century. A testimony to the wisdom of the top dog of his time. Are you listening Alticor?

Tex’s believes tools should be free, and if not free, should be sold at or very near cost. Just as Rich Devos said on the Directly Speaking II tapes, these training materials should not approach the millions of dollars in profit they currently do and their sales should not amount to the the current high percentage of expenditures IBOs make on them. (My personal opinion is that we live in the computer age and distribution of information has become incredibly cost effective with the advent of e-books, video, mp3, and video conferencing.) Rich Devos heard the horror stories back in his day as he admits, and are not the same horror stories being heard in Ada, Michigan today by the Alticor executives? Shouldn’t the current Amway Pharaoh be bold enough to finally put an end to the tool problem the company’s founder viewed as the top threat to his beloved business?

Okay, what can be done in the meantime you might ask? If you are an IBO you can CHANGE YOUR WORLD and the future of your business because you have a voice! THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION NEEDS A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS IN ORDER TO OPEN UP A FRESH INVESTIGATION OF THE AMWAY TOOL SCANDAL AS IT CURRENTLY EXISTS. Just as Rich Devos said, the “tools have no end customer” outside of the business and the money spent by the IBO faithful amounts to a MONEY EXTRACTION scheme. Anyone holding to Rich Devos’s view of the situation therefore share Tex’s view. Although controversial, the kingpin’s tool scam must be brought to an end, otherwise the IBO accept a situation and a system that is not the opportunity that it purports itself to be. The enemy of the IBO is really the same catbird who sits on the tool scam perch with a vulture’s eye for prey!

What do I believe should be done? First, if the tool scam cannot be dismantled and shut down, the company should be put out of business in the US along with the likes of Goldquest, Jewelway, and Burn Lounge. I would suggest that other countries of the world re-examine their relationship with the American Scam. Secondly, the tool scam should be shut down if Amway hopes to remove itself from scandal. A new modern age system could then be instituted that would give the IBO a better chance to succeed at building the business.

This is a fresh approach to the tool kingpin greed that does way more to stifle growth than promote IBO success. The riches that the top tool kingpins display as way of palatial estates, luxury automobiles, and the like are at the pinnacle of the deceit that drives people to get involved, see through the hoax and get out. There needs to be ideological changes made that bring the opportunity as it is presented to prospects back to reality. All the back room dream selling (fostered by the tool scam) can end. Amway needs to engineer a new compensation system that provides a reasonable reward for reasonable work and achievement.

People holding their own greedy dreams of being the next wealthy tool kingpin will be gone. This insane idea sadly motivates people who want to be like the people they view as successful in the business and one which is taught over and over again. The entire motivation industry has been built on the idea of being with successful people and emulating their life to become as they are. Sadly, with the present system, all these aspiring people want to be like the—as Tex describes them—“lying, cowardly, kingpins!”

Readers of this post should not view it as a softening of my personal views about Quixtar/Amway. Tex is calling for the vanquishing of the tool kingpin system of deceit and fraud, which I just happen to agree with. The ball is now in the company’s hands and they must come to grip with the tool scam, stop obfuscating and do something about it if they want to clean their business up. If they will not do something, then a call must be sent out to a higher power to step in and take action.

The taxpayers and citizens of this country need to see some action out of their regulatory agencies and court system! In this election year, the candidates should be prodded to make their positions on this corruption made know. Current and future IBOs should be shielded from being prey to these vultures. Real people are harmed and victimized by their little Quixtar cult.

IBO, you can do your part: complain about the tool kingpins who are ruining your business and put your signature on a complaint to the Federal Trade Commission. Take the next step necessary!!! Write your senator and congressman as well. Add your one little drop to the bucket of water the FTC deems necessary to open up an investigation into the tool scam that has the potential to CHANGE YOUR WORLD FOR THE BETTER.

As the UK decision has revealed, the company will only enact changes when pressure is applied by a power greater than themselves. A sort of scared straight program for MLM executives. Amway/Alticor is already overburdened with litigation, and your voice could be the straw that breaks their camel down, cause them throw up their hands, turn over all the money changers tables and run the lying cowardly kingpins out of the Amway temple! Should they fail to put corruption out of their company, then the baby should be thrown out with the bad bathwater as well!

In conclusion, what should IBOs make of Orrin Woodward’s recent admissions that he made five times more money selling tools than he did in compensation from Quixtar? Have you ever wondered why these kingpins can move between companies and continue to prosper? Aren’t tools really the fleecing of the American Way? These tools that kingpins sell for high dollar in Amway but are worthless on ebay! Think about it?

26 thoughts on “The “Tools Scam” Run By Quixtar (Amway) Kingpins

  1. A little over $2.00 CD hardly sounds like a money making deal to me. Then again, for those that acheived high levels (like Rubies who are the first to get a CD cut on them) why wouldn’t they be rewarded by sharing their experiences? How much do we spend on a CD from a major artist? $15.00? Hmmm….and what do you get out of listening to their music? Anything life altering? I suppose this is dependant on the group that cuts the support system CDs. I don’t know how they all work, but having a family involved with WWDB is a great thing. True men and woman of character is rare to find today.

    I just think you are spending way too much time pointing out flaws. Sales are climbing in that company (from what I have heard from other IBOs that I personally know) for retail purchases. Having a legimate business is what it is all about! Sorry if I sound so pro, but I have family involved and they are doing great! Really good people.

    Thoughts please!

  2. dig4truth….

    You obviously haven’t been digging deep enough for truth. At least you’ve found some here. Listen, I have family involved in this mess of a affair also, and it is not the benign affair your loved ones are leading you to believe it is. My family’s life has been changed, and not for the better. It has become a family horror story. A man that is giving up on pursuing his medical license (he is so close) and following behind these Pied Pipers of Deceit. It is about a grandmother who has to watch the Quixtar orphans who rarely see their parents. It is about a Church that had to be left (too many turn downs). It is about a upline weasel fellow trying to sell a Real Estate Con job as well as lies. It is about credit card purchases on a relatives account just to make PV. It is about a pantry and a basement filling up with inventory loaded products. It is about neighbors that no longer talk to their soap selling neighbors. It is about a young couple over extending their finances for airfare and accommodation to attend quarterly rallies and risking the future they are gambling on. It is about a man who travels out of town misrepresenting himself as that “already” successful distributor to con other people to join. It is about a grandmother so sick she can’t hardly get out of bed, but she still has to change diapers, feed children, drop them off at school , pick them up and do the dishes. It is about dreams of living in a palatial estated and having that Mercedes. It is about purchasing a monthly inventory of badly overpriced and unremarkable products to keep the “dream” alive. It is about a man who enjoyed preaching and now many times skips the weekly service all together. It is about children who cry for the parents that go out the door almost every night of the week to show the plan. It is about children who get handed “dream books” to look at pictures of the accouterments of success which they really don’t care about to substitute for the love and care that only a parent can provide.

    Now, dig4truth, what about that $2 CD? Seems a rather poor argument. Just the expenses from this last weeks “World Wide Dream Builders” rally will never be recouped. You just aren’t going to sell enough vitamins in a year to make up the difference for just one of these big rah rah dream selling events. Now, consider that there are four of these a year. Okay, add the seminars in, and add in the cost of gasoline, meals, and gifts of materials that they make to people they con into getting in on the opportunity band wagon. The only opportunity this bad deal offers is for people to get chewed up and spit out by the AmQuix Pharaoh after they’ve been used up making bricks out of mud. Can you say after me: “PERNICIOUS BUSINESS CULT”.


    Most of these articles appear to be written by the same people. Do you not have anything better to do than bad mouth something you most likely were never sucessful in or even worked at.

    Obviously you must not be college educated either, otherwise you would be writing about the educational systems “Tool Scam” that forces students to purchase books that many times rarely or never get used because the professor changes the curriculum and that someone usually the school makes money on, those “Kingpin” devils. Along with that if you want the education someone has to pay for it! You speak of going in debt write from the start. My answer to you on this is that I don’t know any business that you can start for free. Even an internet business costs time and money to start. Furthmore, my son is currently in college and you guessed it they want $$$$$$$$$ ($148, 000 to be exact) for him to attend and live on campus. Now you want to talk about starting out in the hole if he has to pay for it! Gee maybe you would like to donate to my cause, since you think personal development and educational materials should be provided free.

    I am curious to see if you will even allow this brief rebutale to your ongoing disertation to be shown on your website. You people need to get a life and go do something productive.

    The decisions that people make to purchase tools is strictly their own the same as going to business meetings. I didn’t even see any real names on any of the above batterings. It’s always easy to throw stones at something you have never done successfully or at all. Oh by the way I have several good books for you to read! They helped me go from an average 5 figure income to a relatively good 6 figure income, and that’s to the left of the decimal point . You guessed again I bet compliments / recommendations, (payed for by me!) of the training from the system that you are trying to batter.

    Have a great life.

    I pray that you find something constructive to do with it instead of trying to tear something down that has helped many people in many ways even if they decide not to pursue the Quixtar / Amway business.

    P.S. There are no guarantee’s in a college education either. The only guarantee is that they will joyfully take your money and promote their business. In case you didn’t realize it colleges are in business also and in business to make $$$$$$.

    Best regards,

    Bob Smith

  4. Bob….

    I guess everyone has the right to be fleeced as a sucker if her or she is numb skull enough to want that. Obviously you have a something to gain off of the tool business. Okay, I’ll name someone who is scamming his fellow man. Bob Smith. Sorry Charlie, I don’t have to pull my punches. You are involved in something that hurts people and don’t you care? You must be one of these LCKs that Tex is always telling me about. If you indeed are, well, the intentions of my expose was to expose you to the future.

    There aren’t any guarantees in life, but I will guarantee that anyone involved in your business is a con man and if a man isn’t one already, he soon will be. You can sit on your pile of filthy lucre and feel smug about it buddy, but there will be not trumpets blowing on your judgment day.

  5. Bob

    Quixtarcult or whatever your real name is.

    I guess it’s easy for someone like yourself to hide behind a computer and
    call people names, which I will not lower my self to your standards. It’s
    easy with no facts to create fiction. What have you done in your life to
    help your fellow man since you seem to be setting in judgment of others. I
    can guarantee that for you there will not be trumpets sounding either based
    on your great attitude towards your fellow man and judgment of them even
    when you don’t know them. It’s easy to give advice and ridicule when you
    have nothing to lose.

    So if you are so intelligent why didn’t you address the other issues that I
    brought forth about what we teach in the standard system of hopes to make
    money and have success. Do you realize that 67% of the people that even
    start college don’t finish! So what about the money they invested do you
    think the college should give it back because their system failed. Unless
    you can say something intelligent or positive I would encourage you to keep
    your dangerous opinions to yourself. You just may have an adverse affect on
    someone’s future if they choose to listen to your non sense. You generalize
    on a business that doesn’t dictate what type of system is used to teach and
    train people what they need to do to be successful in this business as well
    as life. It is the systems that independent IBO’s have created that seem to
    come under ridicule not the Quixtar / Amway business, but some people do not
    have enough accurate information to realize that. It does however have
    guidelines in place to try to keep people from taking advantage of others.

    Like any reputable worth wild business this one takes work which not
    everyone is willing to do. Just like when someone excels to the top of a
    corporation, where not everyone has the opportunity to go, there are always
    people throwing stones at the managers of corporations also. I think it’s
    curious that all you want to do is spout rhetoric, pass judgment and not
    address any of the real issues.

    So what do you do for a living that you have been able to help / give people
    the opportunity to become financially independent and what have you done to
    help your fellow man? What makes you so self righteous ? I can honestly
    say that because of sharing this opportunity with others that there are many
    people not just one that are better off. Oh by the way in case you got the
    wrong impression, the 6 figures that I shared was because of the skills I
    developed through this business which allowed me to take a different
    position / job.

    CAN YOU DO THAT FOR SOMEONE ELSE?? If not I recommend highly that you educate yourself on how to achieve more by helping and building others up
    not tearing them down.

    This will be the last post from me as I can see that it is a huge waste of
    my time to even think that educating or sharing with someone that takes the
    time to read or write the nonsense that websites like this put out could
    make a difference.

    I wish you the best in whatever you do.

    Best regards,

    Bob Smith

  6. Tracy Coenen

    Bob – I think it’s probably a good idea that you’d rather not “educate” us. When you write things like this, it scares me: “Like any reputable worth wild business this one takes work which not everyone is willing to do. “

  7. Tracy….

    See what I’ve described. Bob is obviously having mental issues. It is scary out there in the Land of Will. People, just watch out for these vultures like this fellow.
    They will always be sporting or hiding a easel somewhere, desiring more prey from the sucker born every day standard operating procedure.

    Tex, bite his leg! CHOMP

  8. Craig Hansen

    “Quixtarcult or whatever your real name is.

    I guess it’s easy for someone like yourself to hide behind a computer…


    Best regards,

    Bob Smith”


    Signed, John Doe

  9. Bob…

    I guess you’ve had your comfort zone piqued. If anything said in the expose applies to you, then you can consider yourself to be part of the problem and not part of the solution. Learning exactly how bad of an organization you are associated with should cause you to have thought about why you are involved?

    You are one of those Go Ahead And Cheat A Friend fellow commonly called A Amway Distributor. If you are getting your dirty cut, I can see why you are trying to defend your take. If Vulture applies to you, then maybe you can go molt somewhere.

    I don’t have to hold my tongue about all the dirty little secrets of your dirty little Quixtar Cult. A Quixtar Cult Intervention begins when you first got angry. What at first makes you angry also has the potential for a cure.

  10. Tracy,

    I’ve had a little time to research whether there is a Amway/Quixtar Executive Diamond Crown Potentate by the name of BOB SMITH? Seems as if this man does not exist. Might the poster claiming to be Bob Smith be anyone? I wonder if his IP address is that of dunder head feller? These Amway kingpin fakes do not mind posting their dribble while hiding behind their own keyboard or assuming a fake identity. Tracy, these merchant’s of deception are not above anything!

  11. QIAC,

    I think EDC stands for “Executive Dunce Cap” when it comes to Bob. Also, I noticed dig4truth goes to the IIBOAI site, which booted me a while back for having the “nerve” to not accept everything they said as Gospel, and dare ask how much tool scam money they made.

    Here’s the scoop on WWDB, the tool scam run by Ron “LCK” Puryear: They DO charge about $2/CD, most other groups charge $6-8. But here’s the kicker, WWDB charges about $50/month to access the web site to order the “cheap” CD’s, most other groups charg $10/month or less. Also, the CD’s are just the tip of the iceberg, because we also have the profit from the books, voicemail, Opens, Seminars, and Major Functions to consider.

  12. Craig Hansen

    “Did I just see you hide your ostrich head straight into a mole hole? Having a hard time with the bad truth of your little Quixtar Cult?”
    – quixtarisacult

    What the heck are you talking about? I was laughing at the absurdity of someone who signed on as “Bob Smith” lecturing you on “hiding behind a computer”.

    Craig Hansen
    Toronto, Canada

  13. Tracy Coenen

    Craig – I think he thought you were an Amway/Quixtar defender. They do always jump in quickly to defend their own or criticize the critics. I was laughing too. Thanks for participating.


  14. Chuck

    Good and the Bad

    The Good

    1. Amway does have some really good products
    2. You can make some money if you work really hard at it or have a lot downlines

    The Bad

    1. The same or similar products can be found anywhere……why should some buy from you the IBO when they could goto Walmart and get it the very same day?

    2. To make money you either need to

    A. Try selling products to friends and family (See how fast you loose friends and
    your family members avoid you when call.
    B. Recruit many people under you so you can get a portion of their action

    So if you are willing to spend a huge amount of time….walking around malls talking to strangers

    “hello you look like a intelligent well dressed young man/woman…I have a business opportunity you that mite interest you.”

    Or you could find yourself in stores pretending to buy items so you can chat up the sales person (easy mark) after all there job is low paying…..lets forget about the fact the person is at work trying to make a living…..maybe on commission and how inappropriate solicitation is….You need to do this ALL and I do mean ALL the time in order to make money.

    In the end if you find it easy to lie and scam others and spend a huge amount of your personal time gong to “business meetings” or rallies which look a lot like a church evangelist service full of repetitions and key word designed to sabotage rational thought(that would tell you this isn’t good)… could do maybe…..”Fake it….Till you make it” if however you have any ethics and self respect…..this is not for you.

    Toronto Canada

  15. Chuck…

    I am glad your head is screwed on right. Your comment adds some interesting thoughts to the article. People just do not realize how much time and money they will be squandering down a rat hole by becoming a Quixtar IBO. All the BS about doing something great for their fellow man is web of deceit these tool kingpins weave for the suckers.

  16. Joecool

    It is a feeble and shameless defense to compare quixtar to a college education. It is well documented that college grads earn more than non college grads. Quixtar reps earn an average of $115 a month, which is no even enough for a single person to eat for a month.

    I’m not sure where Bob got his 67% of people don’t finish college, I believe it is higher. At any rate, even 33% graduating is astronimical in comparison to the fraction of 1% that makes anything of significance in quixtar.

    Also, if I attended a year of college, that still counts for something in the real world. I may have learned some tangible subjects such as business, physics, communications. What have you learned by listening to a quixtar tape?

    The fact that people actually try to justify their quixtar education by compraing it to college just shows how desperate they are. I might even throw in the fact that I enjoyed my college life as compared to quixtar functions.

  17. joecool…

    This Bob Smith fakir accuses me of not having a college education. Untrue, I have a degree in business administration and realize what benefits a college education brings to a person over a lifetime, even if a person doesn’t end up actually following a managerial career. I found my career in the electronics technical field, but have always felt that my business career made me interact better with the people I had to work with on a daily basis and gives me insight into accepted business principles that Quixtar training tools conveniently avoid since most distributors make no real world profit, so why encourage something so unimportant as accounting?

  18. ray


    I read extensively the main article and people’s comments, so can post my opinion too. I am not on either side; I am just posting what happened to me.
    I was an IBO back in 90s. my co workers were excited, ” we gonna be rich, we gonna be rich”, and the most frequent comment was “ we gonna be rich”, and their enthusiasm caught my attention. Actually none of them, saw me as a person who could possibly do this, I was very young, quite, not very talkative. So none of them called me or even attempted to show me the plan, not even for practice. I asked instead, what is this?. I was eager for something better, for an opportunity. I was 19yrs old at that time. so they told me if you want to know, I will have a meeting next week. I went to the meeting. I saw “WOW, how am I going to miss this?”, this must be nice. I was working two jobs one full time and one part time. I quitted one job to make room for my new opportunity
    so I signed up. I began to make my list, call people, my mother would help contact, had my first meeting at home and none of them got in, then began to call, talk to people, that was for me hard, because I was the quite type of guy.
    Then, after 6 – 7 months I got my first person, luckily , he wanted to do it too, I sponsored another one about 2 months later but that quit about 3 months after. My upline kept telling me that the growth was on the tapes, how many tapes you have flowing, that is your growth, so I naively followed his advice, and everyone on my little group, was on the tape of the week, promoted functions, they used to say : people who go to a function, three months later they become Directs. I attended, but that never came true. I should have called myself a donkey for believing that one. Like if a crystal ball or something would turned me into a new direct by pure magic.
    To make a long story short, my group did not last long. Little by little the excessive expenditure coupled with lack of profit, began to erode the little group I had built. I attended all seminars, opens, rallies, major functions, I remember I kept working overtime to pay for these functions, hotels, etc.. sometimes I felt I can’t go, I don’t’ have enough money, but because I have people under me, my upline wanted me as a young guy, to set the example for my group, so I did.
    my father used to tell me, that I am operating at a loss, that business need to operate at a profit to stay in business, I am losing, and working overtime to pay for this trips, and I should evaluate the situation, I sold a product here and there, but that is not enough, I am was losing big time, but I did not want to listen to him. I think I saw one product demo once and it was regarding women perfumes, and other beauty products, the main thing was the tapes.
    I remember I sold a few items and my group did too, and I got a check for $128.00 after having spend the Lord’s know how much on tapes rallies and functions. A downline of a downline of a downline of mine told me once in a function when she saw stadium full of people. Ray she said, “the money is in the tapes, not in the products”. She was an older woman, secretary of a lawyer, and after the function, she quitted.
    I found myself like you described above, going up and a downward moving stair. You can’t reach the top like that. My group eventually dried out to zero because there was no money, it was just a very expensive club to belong to. None showed the plan, the morale was low, and people quit, and I eventually quit too.
    Later on I find out that the reason for the emphasis on tapes, rallies, functions was the big shots made money. My emerald (no longer in the business, by the way) was always pushing the tapes, I understood, he was getting a cut out of that, but not in those days.
    I wrote this response, because a couple of days ago, a neighbor contacted my wife to show the plan which she has never seen.

  19. Ray

    I forgot to mentioned that since I quit this business, went to school , got myself a degree in exercise science, worked at hospital. now as a father and married responsible for a family, I am making more money than when I was single, but now compare my expenses back then, and what they are now with to children, my financial situation has not really made any significant change.

  20. Ray

    I think I can explained it. They used to say that tools are optional, but success I also optional. they tried to tied success with being on the tape of the week

  21. Ray

    No I am not upset, what is in the past is in the past. I was 19 yrs old at the time, eager to conquer the world, but naive too. i was making $3.70 per hour, that was the minimum wage, and when I saw $2,000!! WOW!! , that caught my attention. i just learn to be more careful next time.

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