22 thoughts on “United First Financial: Don’t Believe the Hype

  1. johnny

    Readers whatever you do don’t let your due diligence in investigating Ufirst stop with this blog. Blogs are like writings on the bathroom wall…anyone can write about something and most people do. If you allow this bathroom wall of a blog be the stopping point you will be following the advice of whoever claims to be the expert on this site. I don’t allow others to influence my decisions from a blog on the internet. Check the company out with the better business bureau, look into the Ernst and Young award they’ve won. Bottom line is whoever is the owner and blogger of this site has not and can not do more investigation on a company than these two. To the owner of this site shame on you for misleading others with you ignorant, slanderous rantings on a solid company. I will do a side by side comparison of your way and the Ufist way anytime you’d like to come out from the rock you hide under (this blog). Why not take the challenge? Afraid you’ll be shown your wrong? That’s what will happen bottom line or you will accept this challenge? That’s if your not to closed minded.

  2. Tracy Coenen

    Dear Johnny – The BBB and Ernst and Young have not investigated UFF. That’s why sites like this are so important. The only thing most consumers will find out about UFF is whatever the company allows to be printed in promotional materials. This site (and others like JoeTaxpayer’s blog) will show consumers the real story… that UFF is a complete waste of money.

    The side-by-side comparison has already been done many times by Joe Taxpayer, and UFF lost every single time. But let’s do it your way. Send over all the details, and we’re on.

    Don’t get too excited, readers. When it comes right down to it, Johnny won’t provide all the data needed for us to do a full side-by-side comparison. But it’s fun to call his bluff.

  3. Johnny, we’ve done lots of these challenges between the MMA and a simple debt reduction strategy of paying off high interest rate debt first. UFirst comes out at least $3500 plus interest behind. Every time.

    Even if it were free, the MMA is a slower way of paying off your debts.

    For an entertaining read, click my name to see what happens when I discuss numbers with agents.

  4. William

    Wow!

    You know, I stumbled upon this site and have read some stuff here and really am amazed. Truly amazed. I see where all the Obama supporters are who wanted a change, yet have gotten sold a bill of goods. Obama is spending even more money than George W. But that’s not what this site is about.

    FACT: Many people buy Ferrari’s that cost well over $100,000
    FACT: Perrier sells many bottles of water
    FACT: Many 72 inch or greater LCD TVs are sold every day
    FACT: All sales is based upon emotion
    FACT: Everyone on this site has an opinion
    FACT: Some people on this site have blown $3,500 at Vegas or have spent that in one year on cigarettes

    What am I trying to say? That almost everyone on this site is missing the point completely about what UFirst provides.

    All purchases are based upon emotion. Even for those god awful things called cancer sticks.

    Who the hell needs a Ferrari to go from zero to 100mph in 3.4 seconds? No one. (I’m not sure how fast it goes. All I know is that this sports car costs well over $1 million dollars.)

    Who needs a 72 inch wide flat screen TV in order to watch a football game? No one.

    Who needs Perrier water? No one.

    Yet there is a market for this because it provides people with something.

    So what is that something? EMOTION.

    People buy $1 million dollar sports car because there are very few out there. They buy it for ego satisfaction. They buy it to make themselves feel good.

    So what’s my point?

    The point is, which everyone seems to be completely ignorant of, is that this is a software tool that allows people to create a budget and allows them to FEEL good about what they are doing financially.

    No different than those of you using a lame ass spreadsheet.

    Who gives a crap if it costs $3,500. Like I said, you smokers out there who’ve commented here are killing yourselves by smoking cigarettes. You can justify killing yourself, but yet you knock down a program that shows you how to get ahead financially?

    Cable TV with high speed internet costs around $125 per month. That’s $1,500 a year. Over 3 years, that’s $4,200. That’s more than the cost of the MMA and cable TV does not get anyone closer to getting out of debt.

    Can you toss a couple hundred bucks in every month to some loan? Sure. But that’s not what they are paying for. They are paying for peace of mind. It has to do with “SEEING” what is going on with your money and using an online financial tool to be guided.

    If someone uses this software, and it helps him or her to shift his/her mental focus about managing money to where they “FEEL” more powerful, and it helps them in life, that is a GREAT thing. A VERY GREAT THING.

    Yet all you people are doing is bitching and complaining. You are missing the boat.

    No different than buying a bottle of Perrier or purchasing a $5,000 plasma screen TV or LCD. This is about giving people an emotion. In this case, it’s providing them with information to help them get out of their loans as fast as they can, while showing them how their budget and their expenses keep them in their loans or gets them out quicker.

    What is so wrong with creating a tool like this and providing free support to people who like to be guided along?

    For some of you males out there, go on an keep stroking your ego. Make yourself FEEL good by trying to prove yourself right, and others wrong.

    I refuse to sit in on the weekend and crunch numbers in a lame ass spreadsheet, and then need to stroke my ego by coming here to “tout” how smart I am by saving $3,500 in using it. Go on, play your Powerball ticket. How much does that add up over time? Good luck, too. Chances are 1:250,000,000. But hey, someone has to win. Why not you?

    Let’s have a contest. You update your spreadsheet and recalculate everything upon seeing about the purchase of a new car and adding in those braces your son or daughter needs, as well as taking a family vacation.

    Ready, set go…I’m done! How about you? What spill coffee on your calculator?

    Smart people do not waste their time doing something when a software program can do it for them quickly.

    This has nothing to do with not being disciplined with money. This is about not wanting to screw around with a lame ass spreadsheet.

    Give people something of value. The MMA has value because it’s providing an EMOTION and guidance to people who like this sort of thing. Or people like myself who have no desire to waste my time and make myself feel good by saying I’ve saved $3,500 by putting everything in a spreadsheet.

    That, to me, is an absolute waste of time.

    Many of you have purchased stuff that in looking back have wasted money on. The MMA is not one of them, though.

    There is NO WAY you can update everything and forecast out into the future with a spreadsheet as quickly and efficiently as this.

    Life, to me, is about saving MY TIME to enjoy life with…not crunching some stupid numbers.

    For those of you who are looking at this software, it’s AMAZING. It provides you with speed and power and control. It shows you what is going on with your money. The financial dashboard is amazing at seeing what is going on relative to your income and expenses. It provides you with peace of mind.

    Go on guys, use your spreadsheet, smoke your cigarettes and watch football on your 72 inch $3,000 LCD flat screen. You purchase those things because you WANTED a shift in feeling.

    No different here.

    For those who want the MMA, get on the program. Purchase it for all your family and friends. When you get on it, you’ll love it because of it’s speed of seeing exactly what is going on with your money.

    If we were taught using a program like this in school, we might be in better financial shape in this country. With politicians who spend the money we earn as if it’s going out of style, and putting us in worse and worse financial condition, you really oughta find more purposeful things to write about.

    William-

  5. Tracy Coenen

    It sounds like William and I agree wholeheartedly that MMA is a complete waste of money! If you want to feel good, go buy that plasma TV. It will do more for you than the MMA ever will.

  6. William, the contests have been done, and MMA always loses.
    All of your analogies are very cute, but have nothing to do with this scam. So let’s stick to the numbers.
    There is a simple rule that beats MMA every time;
    “Pay the minimum due on all your loans, then at month’s end apply any extra to the one with the highest rate.”
    There’s no math, no spreadsheet, no waste of time.
    For those who want to know what day 10 or 15 years from now the mortgage will be paid, a simple spreadsheet will handle it for free. But as I’ve said, the sheet itself adds no value.
    On the other hand, MMA not only doesn’t add value, but it starts the client $3500 behind, and never catches up. It wastes both their time and money. The best you offer is that people spend money smoking so why not throw money away on something like this?
    I tell people to take their $3500 and use it to pay off their highest interest debt. That could be a $700 return each year.
    Right now, this is all just agents and bloggers going back and forth. This concept started in Australia, and the Australian SEC is now prosecuting those selling it, as a fraud. Our own government is in Kanye West mode, “We know UFirst has a nice little fraud going on and we’ll get back to them, but our whole banking industry is collapsing with the greatest fraud ever.” When things settle down, they’ll take care of your little scam.

  7. The Swindler's Mind

    William wrote: “For some of you males out there, go on an keep stroking your ego. Make yourself FEEL good by trying to prove yourself right, and others wrong.

    I refuse to sit in on the weekend and crunch numbers in a lame ass spreadsheet, and then need to stroke my ego by coming here to “tout” how smart I am by saving $3,500 in using it.”

    But William The Sociopath will spend an untold amount of time writing a 1,089 word, self ego stroke mini-book on why the victim enjoys his rape.

  8. The Swindler's Mind

    BTW William. I’ll sell you a word counting program for $3,500. Don’t be a fool and waste your time using a lame-ass word processing application. You’ll feel better. Trust me.

  9. johnny

    Well there goes any creditability you have, because the fact is Ernst & Young and the BBB have both investigated this company thoroughly as well as Personal Real Estate Investor, Broker Banker, Financial Planner, Success magazine, the NBC Channel 3 Las Vegas, NV. and the list goes on. You would know if you stepped outside of your own ego. You and the cronies that brown nose your philosophy are cancerous. You have provided sufficient evidence with your reply that you are a fraud and liar and you will disappear into cyber space as your name and this site becomes clear of it’s intent. You provide nothing but deception and UFF a viable answer to eliminating debt. Agree to disagree, you are a quack.

  10. Tracy Coenen

    Creditability? That’s not even a word!

    E&Y has not investigated UFF, nor has the BBB. E&Y simply sponsored an awards series, but they didn’t look into the product the company is selling. The only thing the BBB will do is a very quick look at any complaints filed, but even that “look” is not any sort of investigation, and with minimal effort of the part of UFF the claims can be closed and considered resolved.

    The magazines you mention simply did fluff pieces on UFF, that were likely done after the PR firm working for UFF contacted them. That NBC report was not anything close to a news piece, either. Even the reporter doing the piece makes it clear that he doesn’t understand how the product works. He simply recites promotional materials from UFF, and that’s about it.

    So….

    How shocking that Johnny offered to make a side-by-side comparison of UFF versus do-it-yourself… but now he won’t do it since I’ve called his bluff. Didn’t I predict that’s what would happen?

  11. johnny,

    It doesn’t take much to find out what is really going on with these “3rd party” magazines that UFirst would have you believe are objective and do thorough investigations of the MMA and UFirst.

    Broker Banker’s executive publisher is an agent, Brian Topor and has been with UFF since early 2007.

    True Wealth Magazine “is published by Cutting Edge Medio, Inc., founded in 1991 in attempts to become the leading provider of marketing, advertising, and lead generation solutions for the home business industry.” Go check out their website. They market themselves to direct sales/MLM companies because they know that agents will buy these magazines to show to others as “proof” of 3rd party validation.

    In reality, they are really playing “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine” with UFF, ie we will write a piece about your company/product if you will promote it to your agents to sell. Don’t belive it? Their website says, “UFirst agents, click here for your special edition.” Agents buying copies of promotional magazines must be good business.

    If you click my name, you will see the same thing with Success From Home, published by the parent company VideoPlus L.P. They even boldly state in a white paper to MLM companies (linked at my name) that they are “subtly reassur[ing] readers this magazine is offering a solid third party look at the featured direct selling company.” And my favorite, “As you consider INVESTING in a third parth magazine…” ie, UFF pays them for the “objective” review.

    UFF wants you to buy it (remember how it was first offered in the back office only in 10, 24, and 48 packs?) They want to recoup their “investment”. They want you to believe this was some national, independent magazine that was blown away with the product. They are following the tried and true method of making money off of “Tools” as has been famously documented with Amway.

    Speaking of “Tools”, has anyone noticed that UFF is now selling to agents “MMA Packaging”? They literally expect you, the agent, to buy slick packaging in hopes that agents and clients will both believe the product is high quality. UFF noticed how many people who buy Apple products rarely throw away the slick packaging. It’s just another version of the emperor’s new clothes.

    As far as Andrew Waite’s PREI and Mortgage Planner Magazine (which I think you meant instead of “Financial Planner”), well of course it is in their best interest to include all things real estate related. The last issue that included a UFirst writeup sold out. That fact doesn’t make the MMA any better than it is.

    -L2G

  12. johnny, nearly 15 years ago, someone came to me asking what I thought of a particular investment manager, one who had an amazing resume and stellar performance. But when I asked how he got such great returns, what his approach was, the answer was pretty vague. I told the potential client that it sounded too good to be true, that with reward comes risk. With so many happy successful clients, that money manager got clients by word of mouth, and the referrals were some smart people in their own right. Now fifteen years of more excellent returns and 15 years of this person keeping in touch with me, telling me how I was pretty arrogant to imply anything negative about this guy and finally, I am vindicated. The manager was Madoff (you hear of him?) and I don’t get the last laugh because I failed. I don’t wish anyone any ill let alone this client (who turns out to be an anesthesiologist, unfortunately. It would have been serendipity had he been a brain surgeon) who lost years of his savings.
    So back to you. You cite a sponsored award and trade journals. You call people names. Yet you and those like you want no part in a discussion of the numbers. You choose to be blind, and throw your money away while stealing from new victims. UFirst and MMA is more like a cult than a financial product. By the way, Tracy is a respected author, specializing in fraud. If I were a betting man, I put my money on Tracy’s career lasting longer than the UFirst fraud.

  13. johnny

    Here is the link from Reuters news agency (you may have heard of them yeah?) It is the press release about the E&Y award you stated Ufirst never received.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS134403+03-Jul-2008+BW20080703?sp=true

    And thanks for the grammar lesson. It is a word smarty pants. Didn’t realize this was a spelling test and check your dictionary or use Websters online dictionary.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/creditability

    I wonder if you have any grammar errors here all(give us a break)

    I suppose you’ll dismissed this Reuters press release in some way or another. You first claim they didn’t investigate the company then changed the tone and gave some lame duck excuse. blah blah. Your defense is weak! Even if E&Y did a small award for the company…their reputation is greater than any of us on this page or any others.

    Joe, and the others who chime in … one of you is enough. If I wanted dialog with you I would have addressed you. Get over yourselves! This isn’t your blog you don’t matter to me. I may address you on whatever site you have, but until that time let it go.

    Ok call it a bluff or not (let’s do this!). What are you really prepared to do? Do you have some type of real challenge? Or you just blog big. You have some type of debt you want to take a challenge with? Use real debts or make up some. After all it’s Math and math doesn’t lie. Provide me with your numbers you want to use. Mortgages, auto loans, credit cards etc… Oh and all that is required for the program to work is a checking and savings account. But, your an investigator and know that already right? Who does your homework?

    Additionally, if so many can do this on their own. Then why aren’t they? If they could they would and their wouldn’t be so much consumer debt. I’m sure no one wants to be out of debt early … you know since it is so easy not to be. What do you provide other than rhetoric?

    It would be great if your reply was actually original in point of view. You seem to have fallen into a rut with your posts.

  14. Tracy Coenen

    Business Lesson #1 Johnny: Press releases are written by the companies themselves. It’s not “a Reuters press release.” It’s a release written by UFF, and it means absolutely nothing when it comes to the credibility of UFF.

    And I’ve never changed my story. UFF wasn’t investigated by E&Y, period. That story stays the same.

    The challenge goes like this. Pick a scenario. Put all the numbers into MMA. Give me full disclosure about all the number you’re using and the entries into the MMA software, and full disclosure about what the software spit out. Yes, let’s use a checking and a savings account, a mortgage, and two credit cards with different interest rates. Ready, set, go.

    I don’t know what an “original point of view” is, but I do speak the truth here. UFF MMA is a worthless product. Consumers should not pay one cent for it. Even if it was free, consumers should not use it because it is a waste of time and it is inefficient.

  15. johnny

    Well, allow me to retort.

    Your business lesson is as effective as your spelling lesson. Your have provided no facts, pointless lessons that are uninformed and well off target. I have provided solid facts weather or not you open a closed mind to them is of course your problem not mine.

    This is akin to something like a horse being shown the water, but like an ass chooses not to drink. Don’t drink that water or give validation to real facts…you and your opinions will dry up and fade away. Unfortunately, later rather than sooner I’m afraid.

    What is your reply to the actual award announcement coming from E&Y’s on website?

    http://www.ey.com/US/en/About-us/Entrepreneur-Of-The-Year/PNW_UTAH_Article_2008-Award-Recipients

    and here’s the actual media release from E&Y (from their website). Wait didn’t you say that only the company writes its press release?

    You are not much of an investigator. Because here is one from E&Y not UFF. I thought you’d trash the Reuters release in someway and you didn’t disappoint. It will probable that you are going to say the same about the E&Y release. Certainly I will not be surprised in the rebuke.

    Oh and here’s the media release from E&Y (their own site) or did UFF need to write this for them too?

    http://www.ey.com/US/en/Newsroom/News-releases/Media-Release-30-06-08DC

    The “waste of time” is really after all of course debating a know it all who has been given facts but refuses to see past their own self serving ego. You have provided nothing but rhetoric.

    Your investigative skills are similar to the useless and unfounded lessons you’ve attempted to teach me. Stick to what your good at…whatever that maybe cause this is not it. Your slanderous rhetoric is a societal problem. You complain about much to which you have no viable answers or solutions to offer, which makes you part of the the problem and not the solution. Your words are cancerous. You vomit slanderous misconceptions about UFF and dismiss the facts handed to you on a silver platter. You have apparent lack in the skills to find on your own.

    All this and you bathroom wall of a blog still offers the consumer who is in debt only rhetoric and no viable solution.

    You provide the absolutes of a consumer debt situation and how your way will attack that debt. I will provide a second…better solution what you cough up or better yet … hack up. That seems more appropriate with you.

    You may believe you are speaking the truth, but that doesn’t make it so.

  16. Tracy Coenen

    Still not up to your own challenge, eh Jonnny? Well the numbers never lie but you’re too afraid to do the numbers.

    Yes, E&Y writes press releases as well. The one you pointed to originally, you claimed was a “Reuters” release (as if somehow Reuters was giving UFF credibility), and my point was that Reuters didn’t write it and wasn’t reporting this as any sort of endorsement for UFF. There is nothing to “trash” about the press releases, which is why I haven’t trashed them. They are what they are… announcements. No sort of validation for the UFF MMA method.

    Your rant is entertaining, but I in fact have provided the one and only solution consumers need…. and it’s free. Each month, pay all the minimums on debt. Pay regular living expenses and required payments. Whatever cash is left over should be paid toward the debt with the highest interest rate. This requires about 30 seconds per month of effort, and is the single fastest way to pay off debt. It doesn’t require any software or any algorithm. Just one simple math problem.

    Now. You still haven’t taken yourself up on your own offer to prove with the numbers that my method gets debt paid off faster. Your personal insults and false accusations will no longer be permitted on this site. The only comments of yours that will go live must include only the numbers required to participate in your challenge. Anything else is going straight into the trash. So I invite you now to participate in your own challenge.

  17. Rachel

    “Each month, pay all the minimums on debt. Pay regular living expenses and required payments. Whatever cash is left over should be paid toward the debt with the highest interest rate.”

    Well, it doesn’t require an algorithm, it IS an algorithm. It just doesn’t require a computer program to follow the algorithm. I’ve paid off 3 credit cards this year by doing exactly what Tracy described, and never used a single spreadsheet. My husband and I did agree to cut certain expenses in order to have more “cash left over”, but we didn’t need a computer program or a spreadsheet to tell us how to do that, either. A little bit of common sense was all that was required.

    It’s amazing how much we can now put into savings with those credit cards paid off.

  18. Congrats, Rachel. It’s UFF agents that wish you gave them $3500 to waste your time on a software program so the credit for the debt payoff can be given to the software, not the user who earned the money in the first place. You are right, the simple rule, paying the high interest debt first, is an algorithm, and a good one. But a dozen word algorithm isn’t confusing enough to scam anyone out of $3500, so UFF uses “sophisticated” algorithms, and “factorial math” to really obfuscate the issue. As you just stated, this isn’t that complicated. But johnny drank the kool-aid, and will use colorful flawed metaphors like “I could also churn my own butter, but I don’t.”
    johnny will spend his time trying to explain the validity of a sponsored event, as if this point is critical. Hypothetically, let’s say E&Y endorsed it, so what? The rating agencies blew it on CDOs (collateralized debt obligations) and I forgot what buried Arthur Andersen. At johnny’s request I will no long speak directly to him.

  19. FYI, I started the so-called “Calvin Challenge” (as posted on many sites by the user ‘calvinandhobbes’) on behalf of all the UFF agents who refuse to actually talk numbers when comparing the Money Merge Account to what someone could do on their own. I did this by using the “actual” MMA engine, as seen in the screen captures. I have worked through a year’s worth of transactions and recorded them all in a google doc for all to see.

    -L2G

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